Coming from a country where police has been rendered completely toothless by the same policies some people in this country are trying to promote which led to literally lawless areas, I am completely against this movement that's currently for some reason trying to demonize cops. I do not care if you're black, white, asian, gay, lesbian or anything - if you break the law, threaten a police officer, or simply ask comple…
Slack Removed a Blog Post Showing How Police Use Its Tech
191–200 of 283 posts
Re: Slack Removed a Blog Post Showing How Police Use Its Tech
#192Earlier quoted context omitted.
I'm just trying to figure out why it's bad that police use slack. If we don't want police to be able to communicate, why not just disband them? Note that I'm not suggesting we disband them. I am just trying to follow the logic.
Sure. We disband the existing police and make a new force based on Peelian principles. After all, maintaining societal peace is valuable. This is pretty common in lots of things so it's pretty easy to understand. You have an aim you want to achieve (peace), you have a tool that does not achieve that (current police), so you discard the tool and get a new tool.
Re: Slack Removed a Blog Post Showing How Police Use Its Tech
#193Earlier quoted context omitted.
>I feel the response to this movement shows that there are fewer good cops that anyone would have expected. What leads you to believe this at an empirical level, though? The inciting incident of course sadly shows yet another example of detestable police and policing, and the reaction shows additional instances of cruel and overly aggressive policing (arresting and assaulting peaceful protesters and reporters in some…
> What leads you to believe this at an empirical level, though? The huge number of officers that surrounded Derek Chauvin's house, for example. https://nypost.com/2020/05/29/officers-protect-home-of-derek... The video is actually just creepy. But that's empirical evidence that you can verify by observation of said video. > How can you, I, or anyone know any of the true statistics? We actually know that the US ranks a…
Yes, this sort of thing is of course very troubling. But this isn't anything we don't already know: many cops will support each other almost no matter what. If you try to think from the perspective of being an officer in a police department for a moment, you can see how it becomes like any other sort of politics. America does something shitty; some other country criticizes it; lots of Americans rise to America's defense. Democrats/Republicans do something shitty; Democrats/Republicans come to the defense of their team.
People with strong group identities can be very biased and have trouble attributing bad intentions or actions to their side. Their judgment is completely clouded, and they often literally will not see or accept the same facts. (This is very evident in current politics.) Many of those cops may have genuinely and truly believed that Chauvin was not responsible for George Floyd's death, for example. (Rather than holding some malicious belief like "that black guy deserved to be killed by him".)
That doesn't defend their actions or their incorrect or shitty beliefs, but it shows how the police are probably just like a country or political party or whatever. Humans are often pretty useless when it comes to neutrally and impartially evaluating their own side/tribe. And if rumors of some police departments trying to filter out applicants who have too high of IQs are true... that would exacerbate that issue, probably. And there's probably an overrepresentation of tribalistic personality types, and people working together in risky situations often develop tighter bonds, etc.
Also, it's possible some of those cops did think Chauvin was in the wrong and deserves to be fired, convicted, and imprisoned, but were there just to prevent a mob from going to his house and killing him, and possibly were ordered to go there.
And in terms of empiricism: this is still anecdotes, not really data. Even if you assume every one of those cops is an irredeemable shitbag (which I think is highly possible; it's not really provable or disprovable, though), this is 20 - 50 cops or something. Even if for the sake of argument we say it's 100 cops in front of his house, that number is tiny compared to the number of all LEOs in the country. It doesn't necessarily give you an accurate assessment of the average police officer in every town in every state.
>We actually know that the US ranks as high as many 3rd world countries when looking at the murder of black people by police. Even the murder of white people is staggeringly high compared to other western countries. The statistics are there.
Yes, this is true. I utterly agree that the situation is completely fucked. It's just a matter of, I guess, how one should think about individual LEOs at the scale of the nation. I'm not saying this is true and have no idea if it's true or what the real numbers could be, but hypothetically if it were the case that most PDs had like 10% terrible cops and 90% good cops, it might be possible that that could be enough to cause these horrible national policing statistics. Or perhaps the same could be also true if there were some PDs with like 80% terrible cops but most PDs had under 10%, or something like that.
>I agree. That's actually what we all want. And that's not happening now.
Yes, for sure. I completely support the protests and protesters. I just think people shouldn't necessarily vilify an individual law enforcement officer without additional supporting evidence about that person, basically.
Re: Slack Removed a Blog Post Showing How Police Use Its Tech
#194Earlier quoted context omitted.
No one can sell anything to any police department ethically? If I'm a plumber and the local precinct calls me to fix their toilet, I am morally obligated to refuse?
Why do people always look for hard and fast rules? If it's your business you can do what you want. No one's obligating you to do anything. In this case Slack's employees felt as though it's unethical. That's totally within their rights to do.
If Slack employees said they felt is was unethical to serve chocolate over vanilla ice cream, none of us would pay attention.
Re: Slack Removed a Blog Post Showing How Police Use Its Tech
#195Earlier quoted context omitted.
Largely a company can choose their customers; they’re not forced to transact with anyone. There are some exceptions of course, largely based on the reasons for not transacting. Being publicly traded doesn’t really matter here directly.
I'm curious, do any kind of discrimination laws apply here?
Re: Slack Removed a Blog Post Showing How Police Use Its Tech
#196Former Slack employee here... This blog post/case study was published a few years ago by Slack's marketing team and led to a firestorm of controversy within the company. Many employees of all backgrounds spoke up about how upset they were that Slack would use a police department as marketing. Eventually the decision was made to keep it up which certainly frustrated a lot of people. I guess now the leaders have decide…
Why though? Is there not a legitimate role for policing in a civil society? And if there is, don't they need to coordinate and collaborate just like any other organization?
Re: Slack Removed a Blog Post Showing How Police Use Its Tech
#197Earlier quoted context omitted.
Sure. We disband the existing police and make a new force based on Peelian principles. After all, maintaining societal peace is valuable. This is pretty common in lots of things so it's pretty easy to understand. You have an aim you want to achieve (peace), you have a tool that does not achieve that (current police), so you discard the tool and get a new tool.
I really hope you don’t actually think the real world works this way. Police are not a ’tool’ in a vacuum, but rather a massively complex interconnected system influenced by thousands of different external forces. Changing the ’rules’ for them would do nothing.
According to HN, everything is impossible. In reality? Going to space didn't have to cost a billion a launch, electric cars weren't impossible, and we can have fibre internet.
For every one of these things, the HN gestalt is that "they're a complex interconnected system influenced by thousands of different external forces". Welp, guess what. Alexander's cut the Gordian Knot. It's clear now that everything is possible and y'all are just hyper risk averse.
Re: Slack Removed a Blog Post Showing How Police Use Its Tech
#198Coming from a country where police has been rendered completely toothless by the same policies some people in this country are trying to promote which led to literally lawless areas, I am completely against this movement that's currently for some reason trying to demonize cops. I do not care if you're black, white, asian, gay, lesbian or anything - if you break the law, threaten a police officer, or simply ask comple…
This is exactly what the protests are about, that police are using disproportionate amounts of force, and it seems to be heavily influenced by race.
If you break the law, you're entitled to a fair trial and a fair punishment. Handing someone a fake $20 bill doesn't warrant death. Hell, I've gotten caught speeding multiple times, I can't imagine that you'd argue that it's worth an execution or even a beating. I also jaywalk all the time.
And people aren't getting their opinion of the police from the media, a lot of this anti-police sentiment is spurred by firsthand videos from protestors on the ground.
Not to mention that protesting is protected by the constitution and is a cornerstone of our democracy.
Re: Slack Removed a Blog Post Showing How Police Use Its Tech
#199Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Is there not a legitimate role for policing in a civil society? Look around. Most Americans would say no to this question. I don’t think they’ve thought through the consequences of that, but I guarantee a random poll would show most Americans want to abolish or >70% defund the police (which is effectively the same).
> Look around. Most Americans would say no to this question. How is it possible to conclude this? There have been polls the last few days where more than half of respondents of both parties support sending the National Guard to quash the rioting and looting, and a significant proportion of Democrat respondents think the Federal government should send the U.S. military to do the same. If you live in a place where peop…
Or in a community that is majority minority where they seem to get the brunt of “a few bad cops”.
Re: Slack Removed a Blog Post Showing How Police Use Its Tech
#200Earlier quoted context omitted.
Because there is a great deal of sentiment that the approaches used in the United States are excessively militarized, racially unjust and insufficiently transparent. Using a problematic customer like that as a marketing highlight is just not a great idea.
What's the alternative though? Pretending that if you needed protection due to crime coming your way/your family's way... you wouldn't call 911? I feel like this entire movement is really taking away credit from the "ok" and "good" cops. How many cops are there in America? Ok, some of them aren't perfect. They are racist/dicks/thirsty for power. Why does this mean as a citizen I should feel less safe because we want…
Have you ever called 911 to summon the police? Do you know anyone who has? It's quite uncommon.
The average police response time is almost 10 minutes. In an emergency situation it might as well be 10 hours. In general by the time they get there, whatever was happening has already happened. Which means you have to be prepared to deal with it on your own anyway.
Most of what the police actually do is not shootouts with bank robbers. It's writing stuff down.
For example, a major function of the police time-wise is vehicle accident reports. You don't need a police officer for that, only any trustworthy official. We could give vehicle accident reports to the fire department and then have more firefighters and fewer police.
We could hire clerks to man a desk who are not police, are not issued weapons and have no authority to cite, arrest or give orders to anyone, give them responsibility for all filing of "police reports" and then have more clerks and fewer police.
We could end the war on drugs and have many fewer police.
By the time you get to the point that the police only investigate murders and such and take everything else away from them, you can get rid of 80% of them and then have 80% less of all the bad stuff associated with whatever percentage of the police are bad cops. We might even do better than that, because when there are fewer of them you can spend more resources vetting each one and pay higher salaries that attract higher quality applicants. Make a police job harder to get, better to have and easier to lose and see what it does to their behavior.