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Tear Gas Is Way More Dangerous Than Police Let On - Especially During COVID

propublica.org

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Re: Tear Gas Is Way More Dangerous Than Police Let On - Especially During COVID

#81

Post by ineedasername »

ggreer wrote: post #66
frompdx wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> but to avoid combating parties one-upping each other with chemical warfare That policy makes sense and seems applicable to protests to prevent peaceful protests from escalating and becoming violent.

How? There's no risk of escalation in the chemical weapons regime from the protestors, nor is there any chance of the police using lethal chemical weapons such as sarin gas. The logic around chemical weapons in the Geneva conventions was specific to escalation around chemical weapons. It wasn't a fully general argument about the use of force. Any force used by police could cause escalation, but we do allow the police…

It's not about escalating use of chemical weapons, it's about escalating the use of violence. It's not hard to see that the same tit-for-tat mentality in chemical weapons escalation could easily apply to any form of violence. Sure, protesters don't have chemical weapons like tear gas, but they could start with bleach, or a mixture or bleach & ammonia, or Molotov cocktails. It's not like the list of home-made destructive devices is a short list.

Re: Tear Gas Is Way More Dangerous Than Police Let On - Especially During COVID

#82

Post by gentleman11 »

If used properly, tear gas is less dangerous than at least some of the alternatives. Imagine actual riots, not peaceful protestors.

The alternatives might be literally deafening sound, rubber bullets, tasers, batons, water cannons, and real guns; all of these can hurt people.

Re: Tear Gas Is Way More Dangerous Than Police Let On - Especially During COVID

#83

Post by influx »

dekhn wrote: post #77
grawprog wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, normal pepper spray at point blank, about an inch from her face, from a police officer arresting her.

there's got to be some relevant detail missing here, pepper spray wouldn't cause your eyes to disintegrate in the way you described.

I wonder if it's just from the force of the propellant at too close a range. Can't be good for the eye.

Re: Tear Gas Is Way More Dangerous Than Police Let On - Especially During COVID

#84

Post by hcurtiss »

grawprog wrote: post #47

My girlfriend worked in eye care for years, she's seen a lot of pretty bad injuries over the years one of the worst stories though was a teenage girl who was pepper sprayed in the face at close range. It basically disintegrated her eye balls. One of them was nearly completely gone and the other one had about 30% of its tissue remaining. She permanently lost her vision and had to undergo multiple surgeries and rehabil…

There's no way this was from regular pepper spray. Maybe some kind of acid? Or blunt force?

Re: Tear Gas Is Way More Dangerous Than Police Let On - Especially During COVID

#85

Post by oyra »

No worries. Soon police will have no funds to buy tear gas. https://www.forbes.com/sites/jackbrewster/2020/06/04/la-mayo...

That's good. I'd love to see Beverly Hills turns South Central. It should teach some lessons those Hollywood morons who support riots, 'antifa' brown-shirts and alikes

Re: Tear Gas Is Way More Dangerous Than Police Let On - Especially During COVID

#86

Post by catalogia »

plutonorm wrote: post #23
aphextron wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Police Brutality isn't a new problem. They should have waited until covid-19 was gone. This wouldn't be happening in a world with 4% unemployment. But 20 million Americans are now out of work, stuck at home, and pissed off. Not to mention without the usual distractions of sports or live entertainment. When the bread and circuses break down, this is the result.

This is the first time I’ve heard this obvious point. There are riots now because people just don’t have the energy left to protest while surviving in hyper capitalism. They’ve got plenty of entertainment at home. This is bout energy and time. Employment supresses protest because it takes time and saps energy.

> They’ve got plenty of entertainment at home.

Some people, particularly introverts, may be able to satiate themselves indefinitely with television or the internet. But a lot of people get antsy if they're made to spend even just a single weekend inside at home.

Re: Tear Gas Is Way More Dangerous Than Police Let On - Especially During COVID

#87

Post by ineedasername »

gentleman11 wrote: post #82

If used properly, tear gas is less dangerous than at least some of the alternatives. Imagine actual riots, not peaceful protestors. The alternatives might be literally deafening sound, rubber bullets, tasers, batons, water cannons, and real guns; all of these can hurt people.

With the exception of sound & water cannons, all of these other methods have been used in the last two weeks, with many recorded usages on peaceful protesters.

Re: Tear Gas Is Way More Dangerous Than Police Let On - Especially During COVID

#88

Post by agensaequivocum »

catalogia wrote: post #79
agensaequivocum wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Except you're still killing grandma which is just as bad as police brutality.

> Except you're still killing grandma which is just as bad as police brutality. It's not clear to me that these are equivalent, nor do I see why they necessarily should be. The impact to the average life expectancy of a few young people dying could be as large or larger than several times more old people dying.

With regard to an individual going out and protesting, it is the same. If I choose to do something that I know will result in the unjust death of another I would be morally culpable of murder.

I agree that when determining the best public policy. One has to weigh the risks and rewards. And the difference in life expectancy is relevant to that discussion.

Re: Tear Gas Is Way More Dangerous Than Police Let On - Especially During COVID

#89

Post by dagnabbit »

missingcolours wrote: post #57
vore wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or maybe the fact that everyone is suddenly all for mass protests suggests that police brutality is a horrible forever unaddressed injustice that doesn't care if there's a pandemic or not?

To quote arguments that were thrown at people who wanted to do things like hold funerals for loved ones, visit dying relatives, protest against destroying the life's work of small business owners, etc: - You can do this over Zoom / online - Just because this is important to YOU does NOT give you the right to sacrifice the lives of the others who will be denied hospital care because of your selfishness - You really ca…

You've been on team "let the virus rip through the population" from the start.

As such, it is unsurprising that you are taking policies created thoughtfully to try to minimize overall harm and unnecessary deaths, and instead of framing them that way, are pretending that those policies were the result of their least tactful defenders.

Re: Tear Gas Is Way More Dangerous Than Police Let On - Especially During COVID

#90

Post by ineedasername »

war1025 wrote: post #2

> Especially During COVID Public gatherings are supposedly extremely dangerous right now. The fact that everyone is suddenly all for mass protests suggests we got the severity of Coronavirus wrong and people are using this as a convenient out for backing off shelter in place orders without losing face. In February the "Philly had a parade, St Louis Stayed home" article was being shared by here and everywhere else. Fr…

It hardly suggest we got the corona virus response wrong. That borders on deliberate obtuseness. First-- it doesn't me we got it wrong, it simply means that some levels of outrage are sufficient to override the fear of getting infects. Second, it will be a few weeks before we see the impact these gatherings have on infection rates.
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