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Germany, France launch Gaia-X platform in bid for ‘tech sovereignty’

politico.eu

251–260 of 507 posts

Re: Germany, France launch Gaia-X platform in bid for ‘tech sovereignty’

#251
post #212

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you including social contributions of employer and employee in your 20% tax rate? Because these are definitively taxes that should be included. If yes, I am really curious to know how this is possible

> Are you including social contributions of employer and employee in your 20% tax rate? Only income taxes. The employer taxes are mainly pension / health insurance.

Compare for example with Denmark where the social contributions are close to 0 and the income tax up to 50%.

The total of the employment taxes paid in Denmark is still lower than the total in France.

Re: Germany, France launch Gaia-X platform in bid for ‘tech sovereignty’

#252

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tech salaries in Europe really are a joke. Even American companies don't pay well here because why would they, the market itself sucks. Combine that with easy immigration to US for Europeans and good affordable education it seems unlikely that talented people would choose to stay here. Part of the reason is the old money in this ecosystem. The problem with digitization in Germany specifically is that our paperwork is…

Today I was looking at some job ads for mid-senior devs in London. £50K and 200+ applicants. And then it says:fruits, free parking, private healthcare after 1 year.. And this suppose to be the tech center of Europe..

Mid-senior devs in most of the USA don’t make 400k total comp either.

Solid experience and skills will get you offers around 100k GBP from bigger, well funded startups and if you want to sell your soul to the finance industry you can get like 300k GBP total comp. Those are both real offers I’ve had in London.

Re: Germany, France launch Gaia-X platform in bid for ‘tech sovereignty’

#253

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can turn that around and say that companies get more for their money in EU. I mean, investor should like companies with reasonable burn rate...

That seems true. However it also needs to be considered that salaries shouldnt be so low that people just leave. For example consider Berlin, rapidly rising rent but not so much for salaries. So people just leave. In such a case you do get more bang for your buck as a company but theres a limit on how much.

That’s happened for sure but companies like Amazon, Zalando, Fyber pay well enough for a seriously good lifestyle here.

Re: Germany, France launch Gaia-X platform in bid for ‘tech sovereignty’

#254
post #243

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can turn that around and say that companies get more for their money in EU. I mean, investor should like companies with reasonable burn rate...

Companies maybe, but there’s zero reason for me to move back to the Netherlands if they’re not going to pay me at least what I earn in Japan, and Japan isn’t even particularly high paying.

Well you left one of the happiest countries in the world to live in a not very happy country (according to research). Without knowing anything about you I find it hard to believe your day to day is any happier than it was in the Netherlands. I moved to the Netherlands from a country that pays developers very good money but had a million other problems...so it's really not all about the money.

Re: Germany, France launch Gaia-X platform in bid for ‘tech sovereignty’

#255
I'm from Germany and just last week I saw a building with a sign.

OVH - Biggest Hoster in Europe

I never heard of this company in my life.

I looked at their offering and they were basically selling 20 year old technology. Nothing compared to AWS, Azure, or Google.

Germany is so far behind in IT, it's crazy.

I also stopped reading German IT news 10 years ago, because they are always weeks or month late.

All good IT people I knew sooner or later moved to the US.

Re: Germany, France launch Gaia-X platform in bid for ‘tech sovereignty’

#256
post #164

As a German who's been exclusively working in the US tech space for the past few years, there's so many anecdotes that come to mind to highlight how far behind the old world is, both in tech as in spirit: - Article about Gaia-X in major German newspaper FAZ explained that on AWS you can spin up your own infrastructure, "sometimes even without talking to anyone from sales", from your home! - When I tried to read or wa…

Tech salaries in Europe really are a joke. Even American companies don't pay well here because why would they, the market itself sucks. Combine that with easy immigration to US for Europeans and good affordable education it seems unlikely that talented people would choose to stay here. Part of the reason is the old money in this ecosystem. The problem with digitization in Germany specifically is that our paperwork is…

> Tech salaries in Europe really are a joke.

Don't look at just the number. Once you consider the cost of living, health coverage, days off, sick days, long service leave, parental leave, and lots of other benefits, it's actually not that impressive.

> easy immigration to US for Europeans

"Europeans" don't exist. UK has drastically different immigration rules than Poland for example.

> good affordable education

Some EU countries provide University education for free, while the US is famously in debt... Are you sure about this one?

Finally, some people just aren't excited about life in the US. I'd take a lower salary to live somewhere else and I know a few people with the same opinion.

Re: Germany, France launch Gaia-X platform in bid for ‘tech sovereignty’

#257

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tech salaries in Europe really are a joke. Even American companies don't pay well here because why would they, the market itself sucks. Combine that with easy immigration to US for Europeans and good affordable education it seems unlikely that talented people would choose to stay here. Part of the reason is the old money in this ecosystem. The problem with digitization in Germany specifically is that our paperwork is…

germany is also one of the only west countryes that uses fax machines. some of our customers are sending orders with fax.

Fun-fact, a big German insurance company had something like that:

Customer send's fax printed out to paper, that paper got copied to 'real' paper for manual signature, that 'real' paper was then scanned and send digital (email) to a archive, where the printed out that digital contract to 'real' paper again (for the archive)

Re: Germany, France launch Gaia-X platform in bid for ‘tech sovereignty’

#258

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tech salaries in Europe really are a joke. Even American companies don't pay well here because why would they, the market itself sucks. Combine that with easy immigration to US for Europeans and good affordable education it seems unlikely that talented people would choose to stay here. Part of the reason is the old money in this ecosystem. The problem with digitization in Germany specifically is that our paperwork is…

They are "a joke" because you're comparing them to the U.S. If you compared them to Japan / Australia / Canada let alone to the developing world they are great. Immigration to the U.S never was and probably never will be easy and the education there isn't affordable. Also, the work culture would be quite a shock for an European. Some people will always try to gain a "better future" , I don't see big numbers leaving G…

>If you compared them to Japan / Australia / Canada

Can't speak for Japan, but the tech salaries in the big cities in Australia and Canada are far more competitive than those in Europe.

The European tech industry is an absolute joke overall, and I say this as a European. It would take an utterly massive overhaul to correct without relying on outright Chinese-style protectionism, and as more companies move remote and snatch top talent in timezone-friendly countries, time is running out faster than ever.

Good luck to European leaders in responding to the question of "Why would I, as a European in Europe, work for a European 'tech' company for terrible pay, when I can work for a US or Canadian tech company remotely for far better pay, on stronger teams, while retaining the same benefits of living in Europe?".

Re: Germany, France launch Gaia-X platform in bid for ‘tech sovereignty’

#259
The description of Gaia-X and that of old world culture sounds like a standard government/enterprise project with all the same problems. The US model comes from venture funding, where you seed 10 firms solving the same type of problem, and the most desirable result prevails. The institutional model of increasing stakeholders to produce something that satisfies all of them is what makes enterprise development such a farce. The mentality is captured in the criticism that something is, "underfunded," which is the expression of a worldview that "funding," comes from some welfare oriented source, and not earned as compensation for providing value. The strategies to "get funding," vs. the ones that earn revenue are largely orthogonal, and people with the funding mentality have in effect the opposite of the "growth mindset," that is necessary to build things others want.

These development cultures build lots of things, just very few things that anyone uses willingly. It's just more solutions to govern, not tools people need.

Re: Germany, France launch Gaia-X platform in bid for ‘tech sovereignty’

#260

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tech salaries in Europe really are a joke. Even American companies don't pay well here because why would they, the market itself sucks. Combine that with easy immigration to US for Europeans and good affordable education it seems unlikely that talented people would choose to stay here. Part of the reason is the old money in this ecosystem. The problem with digitization in Germany specifically is that our paperwork is…

Today I was looking at some job ads for mid-senior devs in London. £50K and 200+ applicants. And then it says:fruits, free parking, private healthcare after 1 year.. And this suppose to be the tech center of Europe..

That's pretty average for dev jobs in commercial enterprises in London (e.g. working for a B2C). In the UK, the big money for developers is in finance (either at a bank, or prop trading, or insurance, or gambling, etc). If you want a shock have a look at the wages in some of the surrounding areas (e.g. Buckinghamshire, Oxfordshire) - you'll be lucky to break 40k£, even if your skill set is very specific to what is required. Contrasted with finance in London, you would be looking at 70-80k£ for a mid/senior, and 100k£+ for a true senior/lead.

Also important to realise that 50k£ is 2x the national average wage. So for more than half of the population it's nothing to scoff at.

The UK is also in a bit of a funny place when it comes to immigrating to the US - due to a lot of American businesses having satillite offices here and a lack of specific visas for Britons, you're going to have a hard time finding a company that will be willing to sponser and relocate you.

Another really important factor when looking at the UK labour market, specifically in London (because my experience with it is there, but this could be true for the other major UK cities), is that contract roles are much much much more lucrative that FTE (or at least, they have been prior to IR35). If you're a mid/senior contracting at a bulge bracket bank you could expect a ~500£ day rate. 500£ * 282 (working days - some holidays/sick/national holidays) = 141000£. If you run that into your contracting LLC, rather than take it through PAYE, you can cut your effective tax rate by a big margin depending on how you spend your money - so even more cash that you would be FTE on the same wage.

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