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Germany, France launch Gaia-X platform in bid for ‘tech sovereignty’

politico.eu

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Re: Germany, France launch Gaia-X platform in bid for ‘tech sovereignty’

#241

Post by touisteur »

simias wrote: post #198
thamer wrote: post #14

It's no surprise the French government is involved in this. They love these moonshot projects that aim to create the French X for any X that is a successful service by an American company. Qwant[1], launched as "The French Google" with a focus on privacy, serves 10 million searches a day (a ridiculously small number). No one has heard of it, no one uses it, and it's another project with a dream of restoring France to…

I agree that these efforts have been very hit or miss but on the other hand... What should they do instead? Just give up and accept that we're going to simply be technological vassals to America? Or should Macron and Merkel learn Javascript and take the matter into their own hands? We could've gone the Chinese way and just close the door to American companies, effectively forcing the local populace to use home-grown…

Listening to French entrepreneurs, the usual suspects (labor laws, taxes...) are not so much of a problem.

They all seem to rally around an kafkaesque bureaucratic nightmare of interacting with anything state-related... Especially orgs collecting payroll taxes... The stories I see, where you get nailed huge fines every year, for small nitpicky details. They all talk of nightmares where some admin comes and destroy their company with a single inscrutable letter...

Re: Germany, France launch Gaia-X platform in bid for ‘tech sovereignty’

#242

Post by amaccuish »

hackissimo123 wrote: post #167
allendoerfer wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They are not shielding their market, putting everything behind a firewall, requiring joint ventures. Instead they actually respect human rights and the power of law. They don’t even use a non-latin language.

I think the residents of Britain, Ireland, the Netherlands, Germany, Sweden, Norway, Denmark, Iceland, and the entirety of central and eastern Europe (except Romania) would be surprised to hear that they don't speak a Latin language.

I assume you're speaking of alphabet? Because the languages you just listed are definitely not descendants of Latin.

Re: Germany, France launch Gaia-X platform in bid for ‘tech sovereignty’

#243

Post by Aeolun »

panpanna wrote: post #200
thecleaner wrote: post #184

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tech salaries in Europe really are a joke. Even American companies don't pay well here because why would they, the market itself sucks. Combine that with easy immigration to US for Europeans and good affordable education it seems unlikely that talented people would choose to stay here. Part of the reason is the old money in this ecosystem. The problem with digitization in Germany specifically is that our paperwork is…

You can turn that around and say that companies get more for their money in EU. I mean, investor should like companies with reasonable burn rate...

Companies maybe, but there’s zero reason for me to move back to the Netherlands if they’re not going to pay me at least what I earn in Japan, and Japan isn’t even particularly high paying.

Re: Germany, France launch Gaia-X platform in bid for ‘tech sovereignty’

#244

Post by ChuckNorris89 »

heipei wrote: post #186
gspr wrote: post #181

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the two first points are more specific to Germany than to the old world as a whole. Up here in Scandinavia, we often laugh at how much Germans interact with humans, send letters and faxes, and make phonecalls in their business lives. They are woefully far behind. From what I understand the same is true for the south. While I agree with the basic premise of the last point too I think you maybe underestimate th…

You're right, and I'm glad I started by saying that I'm German because lots of smaller European countries run circles around us in terms of tech adoption. I don't underestimate the value of quality of life, and I don't blame anyone who knowingly works for a stable, "boring", old-school German company which has been the world-leader in its niche for the past 100 years. But I think many people here are not aware that t…

>family-owned business where your primary objective is to provide stable and fair employment to people, often for their entire working lives

Maybe that was the case in the '50s to '80s but I recently worked at two small family owned German companies that were leaders in their niche and their primary objective was to make their owners rich, not their employees happy(Kununu employee reviews reflected that). After that, I learned my lesson and moved to $BIG_CORP where at least I know it's all about the profits and they don't pretend to be your family as an excuse to pay you peanuts.

Re: Germany, France launch Gaia-X platform in bid for ‘tech sovereignty’

#245

Post by 0x5002 »

heipei wrote: post #164

As a German who's been exclusively working in the US tech space for the past few years, there's so many anecdotes that come to mind to highlight how far behind the old world is, both in tech as in spirit: - Article about Gaia-X in major German newspaper FAZ explained that on AWS you can spin up your own infrastructure, "sometimes even without talking to anyone from sales", from your home! - When I tried to read or wa…

Not to mention the culture at work. I've never experienced a more stuffy, hierarchical, and old-fashioned IT "industry" as I have in Germany.

I've been hosting my server with a German company for years. They have recently opened a data center in Missouri - which would be great for latency (I'm in the southeastern US).

So, I send an email to the effect of "Hey folks, could you please let me know if it's possible to migrate server xxx.xxx to your MO DC? Thanks!" and that started an email-chain of mighty proportions. Every single email starts with "Dear Mr. XXX" (which is not common in the US, even with attorneys) and uses language that sounds like somebody fed a Markov chain with a fun mix between Nietzsche and the entirety of the German civil code. :)

(In all fairness, the company is fantastic and the end-result works great and was done on time)

Re: Germany, France launch Gaia-X platform in bid for ‘tech sovereignty’

#246

Post by ChuckNorris89 »

fauigerzigerk wrote: post #238
gspr wrote: post #181

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the two first points are more specific to Germany than to the old world as a whole. Up here in Scandinavia, we often laugh at how much Germans interact with humans, send letters and faxes, and make phonecalls in their business lives. They are woefully far behind. From what I understand the same is true for the south. While I agree with the basic premise of the last point too I think you maybe underestimate th…

It's not just Germany though. The UK is absolutely obsessed with making phone calls. Lots and lots of completely useless phone calls. Most of them could easily be replaced by an online booking system. Others serve no purpose at all, because all that's required is for them to take some action. Same with US corporations. I recently tried to sign up for Microsoft's partner network because that's required for an Office 3…

Believe me, the UK is ages ahead of Germany in terms of digitization.

Re: Germany, France launch Gaia-X platform in bid for ‘tech sovereignty’

#247

Post by pmontra »

pinkfoot wrote: post #61
Udik wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree completely: as a European, I find these projects pathetic. We need the humility to learn something from the US and create an environment and a framework in which private companies can thrive, instead of being constantly dragged down by bureaucracy, regulations, and a legal-judiciary system eager not to help but to assert its power.

Learn to pay your programmers properly.

I agree but by paying such low rates / salaries they don't get all the developers they need to do all the projects they would like to do (source: my experience in Italy, where there are more companies looking for developers than developers with spare time for them) and still those companies manage to keep going no matter if projects are delayed or cancelled. If they couldn't either they would close or find more money to spend. Of course that's great for those countries that can move faster, their advantage increases.

Re: Germany, France launch Gaia-X platform in bid for ‘tech sovereignty’

#248

Post by ChuckNorris89 »

Aeolun wrote: post #243
panpanna wrote: post #200

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can turn that around and say that companies get more for their money in EU. I mean, investor should like companies with reasonable burn rate...

Companies maybe, but there’s zero reason for me to move back to the Netherlands if they’re not going to pay me at least what I earn in Japan, and Japan isn’t even particularly high paying.

Wow, that's the first time I hear this. Care to share why did you choose Japan out of all places?

Re: Germany, France launch Gaia-X platform in bid for ‘tech sovereignty’

#249

Post by joelbluminator »

thecleaner wrote: post #184
heipei wrote: post #164

As a German who's been exclusively working in the US tech space for the past few years, there's so many anecdotes that come to mind to highlight how far behind the old world is, both in tech as in spirit: - Article about Gaia-X in major German newspaper FAZ explained that on AWS you can spin up your own infrastructure, "sometimes even without talking to anyone from sales", from your home! - When I tried to read or wa…

Tech salaries in Europe really are a joke. Even American companies don't pay well here because why would they, the market itself sucks. Combine that with easy immigration to US for Europeans and good affordable education it seems unlikely that talented people would choose to stay here. Part of the reason is the old money in this ecosystem. The problem with digitization in Germany specifically is that our paperwork is…

They are "a joke" because you're comparing them to the U.S. If you compared them to Japan / Australia / Canada let alone to the developing world they are great. Immigration to the U.S never was and probably never will be easy and the education there isn't affordable. Also, the work culture would be quite a shock for an European. Some people will always try to gain a "better future" , I don't see big numbers leaving Germany though even if immigration was easy.

Re: Germany, France launch Gaia-X platform in bid for ‘tech sovereignty’

#250

Post by lorenzhs »

ReticentVole wrote: post #232
turbinerneiter wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I.e. Germany has: * A good, free education system * Social security * Good healthcare system * Proper democracy * Politicians who aren't clowns * A total of 500 police killings ... in total since 1950 The US is close to becoming a failed state due to the increasing wealth and income gap. Also, please do me a favour and read up a bit on the history of silicon valley and us innovation. It's hard to claim the government…

Germany is (until recently) also ethnically homogeneous, unlike the USA. Its a lot easier to offer those services when everyone has roughly the same income, the same education, the same IQ, the same genetics, the same family experience.

If by until recently you mean the 1960s, maybe? Why do people always assume that there wasn't any immigration to Germany before 2015? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gastarbeiter

It's so boring that in every discussion where some other country does something better than the US, people find a million reasons why this could never work there.

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