Live data from Hacker News

Germany, France launch Gaia-X platform in bid for ‘tech sovereignty’

politico.eu

81–90 of 507 posts

Re: Germany, France launch Gaia-X platform in bid for ‘tech sovereignty’

#81
If they want Competition to "HyperScalers" then why not just use OVH?

Generally speaking, I dont think any of the Europeans have technical problems, I think they have a Product Placement, Marketing and Sales problem. And I think it is more or a cultural issue. ( Not saying it is a bad thing )

Re: Germany, France launch Gaia-X platform in bid for ‘tech sovereignty’

#82
post #14

It's no surprise the French government is involved in this. They love these moonshot projects that aim to create the French X for any X that is a successful service by an American company. Qwant[1], launched as "The French Google" with a focus on privacy, serves 10 million searches a day (a ridiculously small number). No one has heard of it, no one uses it, and it's another project with a dream of restoring France to…

How do they think Google became what it is, or most American companies like Amazon? That the US government funded it and kickstarted them with VC funds? A company like Airbus makes some sort of sense since the government heavily funds Boeing/Lockheed Martin via defense contracts. But Amazon/Google and VC-backed tech startups and companies? Not to mention that the pay for software developers and engineers in general i…

I.e. Germany has:

* A good, free education system * Social security * Good healthcare system * Proper democracy * Politicians who aren't clowns * A total of 500 police killings ... in total since 1950

The US is close to becoming a failed state due to the increasing wealth and income gap.

Also, please do me a favour and read up a bit on the history of silicon valley and us innovation. It's hard to claim the government investment isn't a big factor. The DoD is behind a lot of stuff.

And I say this with envy - the US model of government investment is way better than the European one. OP correctly described the issues we have.

(Not saying Germany is perfect and the US is pure shit, I was being overly provocative to establish an extreme counter point)

Re: Germany, France launch Gaia-X platform in bid for ‘tech sovereignty’

#83
post #69

Most of old Europe saw China succeed in its "Copy a successful American thing" manner and decided to try the same. Except they don't have the competence overall as orgs.

competence at what, exactly?

They are not shielding their market, putting everything behind a firewall, requiring joint ventures. Instead they actually respect human rights and the power of law. They don’t even use a non-latin language.

Re: Germany, France launch Gaia-X platform in bid for ‘tech sovereignty’

#84
post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

France is a tax and red tape hell. As an individual you may be OK re. tax if you are married with children because they give strong tax advantages to those households [basically they count how many people live on your income when calculating income tax], which must be your case. But overall tax levels are high, taxes are many and complicated, red tape works against you.

> France is a tax and red tape hell. - Red tape I agree. Administrations are slow and processes cumbersome. - Taxes I do not agree, France is in the European's average.

France is #1 in the EU for public spending [1]. Deficit is within average and constrained by Eurozone rules (excluding the current mess). Money does not magically appear.

As I said, taxes are many, complicated, and often useless. This of course overlaps with the issue of red tape but is an issue in itself. There is a reason why so many rich French people live in Belgium or London. There is a reason why when Peugeot merges with Fiat-Chrysler the new company is headquartered in Amsterdam.

Just another example I've recently found (this is supposed to be abrogated this year): If you're a company and your turnover is greater than EUR760k annually then there is a special, additional tax on your advertising spending. There are plenty of things like that. This is bonkers.

[1] https://www.statista.com/statistics/263220/public-spending-r...

Re: Germany, France launch Gaia-X platform in bid for ‘tech sovereignty’

#85
post #53
post #14

It's no surprise the French government is involved in this. They love these moonshot projects that aim to create the French X for any X that is a successful service by an American company. Qwant[1], launched as "The French Google" with a focus on privacy, serves 10 million searches a day (a ridiculously small number). No one has heard of it, no one uses it, and it's another project with a dream of restoring France to…

Well yes, but sometimes this approach gets you things like Airbus.

No, this approach doesn’t. Complex working systems are built on a core of simpler working systems. Picking winners works incredibly rarely. Industrial policy and the infant industry argument barely ever works. You’re far more likely to get the Argentine or Indian car industry[1] or the Irish steel industry than the Korean ship building industry.

Airbus did not arise from the government putting out a tender for an airline company to be delivered in working order. There were many smaller, working, profitable aviation companies first.

[1] They all disappeared absent subsidies/tariffs.

Re: Germany, France launch Gaia-X platform in bid for ‘tech sovereignty’

#87
post #81

If they want Competition to "HyperScalers" then why not just use OVH? Generally speaking, I dont think any of the Europeans have technical problems, I think they have a Product Placement, Marketing and Sales problem. And I think it is more or a cultural issue. ( Not saying it is a bad thing )

IMHO the broader issue is that there isn’t a european culture or market. Instead you have a fragmented set of markets, each with their own expectations and regulations. That makes it incredibly hard to create a product that serves Europe as a whole instead of just Germany, or France, or something else.

Even just the basics are way harder than they should be, for example the lack of a common language is already a pain to deal with.

Re: Germany, France launch Gaia-X platform in bid for ‘tech sovereignty’

#88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How do they think Google became what it is, or most American companies like Amazon? That the US government funded it and kickstarted them with VC funds? A company like Airbus makes some sort of sense since the government heavily funds Boeing/Lockheed Martin via defense contracts. But Amazon/Google and VC-backed tech startups and companies? Not to mention that the pay for software developers and engineers in general i…

I.e. Germany has: * A good, free education system * Social security * Good healthcare system * Proper democracy * Politicians who aren't clowns * A total of 500 police killings ... in total since 1950 The US is close to becoming a failed state due to the increasing wealth and income gap. Also, please do me a favour and read up a bit on the history of silicon valley and us innovation. It's hard to claim the government…

> * A good, free education system * Social security * Good healthcare system * Proper democracy * Politicians who aren't clowns * A total of 500 police killings ... in total since 1950

None of these things (for good or bad) have anything to do with making good tech products.

Re: Germany, France launch Gaia-X platform in bid for ‘tech sovereignty’

#89
post #14

It's no surprise the French government is involved in this. They love these moonshot projects that aim to create the French X for any X that is a successful service by an American company. Qwant[1], launched as "The French Google" with a focus on privacy, serves 10 million searches a day (a ridiculously small number). No one has heard of it, no one uses it, and it's another project with a dream of restoring France to…

Honestly there are very capable and smart engineers in France, and I don't blame the country ambition to develop its own solutions, but the SSII mafia (or how are they called now?) is killing innovation.

It's a very top to bottom decision process (starting from the Government/MP), with big bucks involved, and very little understanding of how to drive these tech projects, all the way to the bottom.

What I don't understand is the status-quo after years and years of failed projects. What a waste of tax payer money.

Re: Germany, France launch Gaia-X platform in bid for ‘tech sovereignty’

#90
post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I.e. Germany has: * A good, free education system * Social security * Good healthcare system * Proper democracy * Politicians who aren't clowns * A total of 500 police killings ... in total since 1950 The US is close to becoming a failed state due to the increasing wealth and income gap. Also, please do me a favour and read up a bit on the history of silicon valley and us innovation. It's hard to claim the government…

> * A good, free education system * Social security * Good healthcare system * Proper democracy * Politicians who aren't clowns * A total of 500 police killings ... in total since 1950 None of these things (for good or bad) have anything to do with making good tech products.

The implication is these factors will suffice in attracting and retaining talent, instead of simply paying them more.

Completely delusional in the face of the past thirty years or so, but it remains a worryingly common talking point in WE “tech adjacent” circles.

Post reply on HN