Germany will require all petrol stations to provide electric car charging • Hacker News Board

Re: Germany will require all petrol stations to provide electric car charging

#131

Post by huonpine » Fri, Jun 05, 2020, 4:48 AM UTC

HaloZero wrote: post #120

askvictor wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are totally correct, yet OP's point is still reasonable - this was written from the perspective of a petrol-car driver; moreover, it's a missed opportunity to think differently. Petrol stations require big tanks underground to store the petrol; we don't have pipelines through the city carrying petrol. On the other hand, we do have a massive network of wires carrying electricity. EV charging can so easily be distr…

That would require significant more infrastructure in public spaces. Requiring petrol stations is a good first step to break the barrier that combines private/public work. (I'm assuming petrol stations are private enterprises in Germany on this point)

Would it? My local city has electric parking meters, is it hard to add a cable to that?

Re: Germany will require all petrol stations to provide electric car charging

#132

Post by Tomte » Fri, Jun 05, 2020, 4:52 AM UTC

mc32 wrote: post #73

qayxc wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most EV drivers have no need to visit charging stations [...] You do realise that we're talking about Germany here, don't you? You cannot apply US standards to a foreign country with 7x the population density and only a ~50% home ownership rate... The fact of the matter is, that half of German households cannot charge their vehicles at home, because they live in a rented apartment. In cities in particular (you know,…

By home I don’t think they mean having a garage with a charger. By home I think they mean wherever you park your car at night.

Roadside. Every night in another spot, sometimes even hundreds of meters away from your apartment.

The situation I have in mind is for large parts of a middle-big town that's a regional center.

Re: Germany will require all petrol stations to provide electric car charging

#133

Post by epstein_did_not » Fri, Jun 05, 2020, 4:58 AM UTC

Germany will require all acts of sex to include anal sex.

Re: Germany will require all petrol stations to provide electric car charging

#134

Post by cookiengineer » Fri, Jun 05, 2020, 5:02 AM UTC

qayxc wrote: post #64

cmrdporcupine wrote: post #52

Seems like policy written by petrol car drivers and not well thought out. In the future electric vehicle world 95% of charging will be done at home, or in some facility near your rental building. Most EV drivers have no need to visit charging stations unless they're going on an extended road trip, and then we need a particular _kind_ of DC fast charging station. I mean... I have an EV and I could count on two hands t…

Most EV drivers have no need to visit charging stations [...] You do realise that we're talking about Germany here, don't you? You cannot apply US standards to a foreign country with 7x the population density and only a ~50% home ownership rate... The fact of the matter is, that half of German households cannot charge their vehicles at home, because they live in a rented apartment. In cities in particular (you know,…

Another problem is that even if you are lucky to be able to rent a garage for a few hundred bucks per month, you are not able to get your car charged inside. A lot of building regulations will prevent that, including Erschliessungsgebühren, Elektroverträglichkeitsmessungen, the required VDE Sicherheitsprüfungen and the fact that each garage lot would require a legal address in order for paying Energiesteuer there, as the control of that is done by external organizations like the ISTA or similar entities.

And yes, overall for private people it’s totally impossible to think of everything in this regard, even if you are lucky enough to have an owned home.

Re: Germany will require all petrol stations to provide electric car charging

#135

Post by eloff » Fri, Jun 05, 2020, 5:02 AM UTC

qayxc wrote: post #64

cmrdporcupine wrote: post #52

Seems like policy written by petrol car drivers and not well thought out. In the future electric vehicle world 95% of charging will be done at home, or in some facility near your rental building. Most EV drivers have no need to visit charging stations unless they're going on an extended road trip, and then we need a particular _kind_ of DC fast charging station. I mean... I have an EV and I could count on two hands t…

Most EV drivers have no need to visit charging stations [...] You do realise that we're talking about Germany here, don't you? You cannot apply US standards to a foreign country with 7x the population density and only a ~50% home ownership rate... The fact of the matter is, that half of German households cannot charge their vehicles at home, because they live in a rented apartment. In cities in particular (you know,…

If you don't have a parking space, you probably don't have an EV and whether gas stations have chargers or not is irrelevant.

If you do, it doesn't matter if you're renting or not, you have a similar ability to charge at home. What you probably can't do is install a dedicated fast charger unless you somehow plan to take it with you when you move, or work a deal with the landlord to share the cost.

I think the one thing that does change in Germany is more people live in apartments where you have less options for installing a charger than in the suburbs in your own garage in the US.

Re: Germany will require all petrol stations to provide electric car charging

#136

Post by eigenvector » Fri, Jun 05, 2020, 5:09 AM UTC

eloff wrote: post #135

qayxc wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most EV drivers have no need to visit charging stations [...] You do realise that we're talking about Germany here, don't you? You cannot apply US standards to a foreign country with 7x the population density and only a ~50% home ownership rate... The fact of the matter is, that half of German households cannot charge their vehicles at home, because they live in a rented apartment. In cities in particular (you know,…

If you don't have a parking space, you probably don't have an EV and whether gas stations have chargers or not is irrelevant. If you do, it doesn't matter if you're renting or not, you have a similar ability to charge at home. What you probably can't do is install a dedicated fast charger unless you somehow plan to take it with you when you move, or work a deal with the landlord to share the cost. I think the one thi…

Parent comment said "no dedicated parking space" which is a different thing. When I lived in Toronto, I had a resident permit issued by the city to park on the street on same block as my building, but I was at the mercy of whatever space was available. Some days I'd get a spot right in front of my building, some days I had to walk around the corner. This is a pretty common parking scenario in dense, older areas - there is no dedicated parking lot and the space you are parking on is part of the public realm.

Re: Germany will require all petrol stations to provide electric car charging

#137

Post by mbrameld » Fri, Jun 05, 2020, 5:11 AM UTC

huonpine wrote: post #131

HaloZero wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That would require significant more infrastructure in public spaces. Requiring petrol stations is a good first step to break the barrier that combines private/public work. (I'm assuming petrol stations are private enterprises in Germany on this point)

Would it? My local city has electric parking meters, is it hard to add a cable to that?

I imagine the wiring to the meters is designed to carry the current necessary to run an electric parking meter and wouldn't hold up to the current required to charge an EV.

Re: Germany will require all petrol stations to provide electric car charging

#138

Post by eigenvector » Fri, Jun 05, 2020, 5:13 AM UTC

huonpine wrote: post #131

HaloZero wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That would require significant more infrastructure in public spaces. Requiring petrol stations is a good first step to break the barrier that combines private/public work. (I'm assuming petrol stations are private enterprises in Germany on this point)

Would it? My local city has electric parking meters, is it hard to add a cable to that?

Yes, because an electric parking meter uses only a few watts of electricity and may not even be connected to the grid (the most common ones I've seen just have a tiny solar panel). A electric vehicle charger may use 200 kW and require its own dedicated transformer. A fast charger is a fairly substantial cabinet. Now you're jackhammering the sidewalk to bring an underground electrical service to that spot.

Re: Germany will require all petrol stations to provide electric car charging

#139

Post by Gibbon1 » Fri, Jun 05, 2020, 5:14 AM UTC

qayxc wrote: post #64

cmrdporcupine wrote: post #52

Seems like policy written by petrol car drivers and not well thought out. In the future electric vehicle world 95% of charging will be done at home, or in some facility near your rental building. Most EV drivers have no need to visit charging stations unless they're going on an extended road trip, and then we need a particular _kind_ of DC fast charging station. I mean... I have an EV and I could count on two hands t…

Most EV drivers have no need to visit charging stations [...] You do realise that we're talking about Germany here, don't you? You cannot apply US standards to a foreign country with 7x the population density and only a ~50% home ownership rate... The fact of the matter is, that half of German households cannot charge their vehicles at home, because they live in a rented apartment. In cities in particular (you know,…

One thing I've wondered about is key less entry could solve a bunch of issues with cars. Like pay the local charging station to deal with charging. As in middle of the night a attendant gets in your car, drives it a couple of minutes to a charging station and plugs it in. Brings it back an hour or two later.

Re: Germany will require all petrol stations to provide electric car charging

#140

Post by PaulDavisThe1st » Fri, Jun 05, 2020, 5:16 AM UTC

joejerryronnie wrote: post #121

gpsx wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What would be a good use of gas stations for electric cars is battery swapping. It is too early to make this mandatory but I think it might be time to start working on this idea. (It has been looked into before.)

Maybe just swap cars. They can maintain a small inventory of fully charged EVs, just swap your depleted EV out and be on your way. Then your previous EV gets charged up for the next guy.