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Germany will require all petrol stations to provide electric car charging

reuters.com

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Re: Germany will require all petrol stations to provide electric car charging

#121

Post by joejerryronnie »

gpsx wrote: post #84
askvictor wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are totally correct, yet OP's point is still reasonable - this was written from the perspective of a petrol-car driver; moreover, it's a missed opportunity to think differently. Petrol stations require big tanks underground to store the petrol; we don't have pipelines through the city carrying petrol. On the other hand, we do have a massive network of wires carrying electricity. EV charging can so easily be distr…

What would be a good use of gas stations for electric cars is battery swapping. It is too early to make this mandatory but I think it might be time to start working on this idea. (It has been looked into before.)

Maybe just swap cars. They can maintain a small inventory of fully charged EVs, just swap your depleted EV out and be on your way. Then your previous EV gets charged up for the next guy.

Re: Germany will require all petrol stations to provide electric car charging

#122

Post by 1bc29b36f623ba8 »

11thEarlOfMar wrote: post #43

This begs a larger question of how petroleum mega corps are going to weather the transition to electric vehicles. Looking at BP, margins are really poor. They have $22 Billion in cash vs. $11 Billion operating expenses and $24 Billion in debt. There is time: in March, 2% of new vehicles sold in Europe were BEV. On the other hand, the total spend on electricity per mile driven is 1/3 that of petrol. That means a compl…

> They are toast.

Many traditional petrol stations are toast already. The one in the village where I live closed decades ago. The one in the next village only survives because it's got a fairly successful tire business run by the owner's son as a side gig, and because it's the only place in a 30 km radius where you can buy basic necessities like toilet paper, toothpaste, and basic foodstuffs, as well as other goods like beer and soda.

If that place had to survive on the money from petrol sales alone they wouldn't have been there. If there's a demand for charging stations I'm sure they'll adapt. :)

Re: Germany will require all petrol stations to provide electric car charging

#124

Post by sib »

bsder wrote: post #60
sib wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If it were the case that allowing charging was an economic benefit to the owners of gas stations, I guess they'd already be doing it. Since so few of them are, I assume that it's not beneficial. If the government wants this, it should pay station owners to do it.

>If it were the case that allowing charging was an economic benefit to the owners of gas stations, I guess they'd already be doing it. Chargers require capital outlay. Unless you can prove that your revenue is going to offset the capital outlay fairly quickly (<1 year), I'm not going to do it given the margins on most gas stations.

That's exactly my point. The station owners mostly aren't stupid.

If it were a great deal (measuring by NPV), you'd see companies formed to raised capital and install charging stations at gas stations in some sort of revenue sharing / land leasing arrangement. In fact, there are such companies, and they are slowly marching down the path.

Again, if the government wants to make this happen, there's an easy solution: provide the capital.

Re: Germany will require all petrol stations to provide electric car charging

#125

Post by adrianN »

1bc29b36f623ba8 wrote: post #122
11thEarlOfMar wrote: post #43

This begs a larger question of how petroleum mega corps are going to weather the transition to electric vehicles. Looking at BP, margins are really poor. They have $22 Billion in cash vs. $11 Billion operating expenses and $24 Billion in debt. There is time: in March, 2% of new vehicles sold in Europe were BEV. On the other hand, the total spend on electricity per mile driven is 1/3 that of petrol. That means a compl…

> They are toast. Many traditional petrol stations are toast already. The one in the village where I live closed decades ago. The one in the next village only survives because it's got a fairly successful tire business run by the owner's son as a side gig, and because it's the only place in a 30 km radius where you can buy basic necessities like toilet paper, toothpaste, and basic foodstuffs, as well as other goods l…

I'll never understand why people live in places where you have to travel more than 30km to a supermarket.

Re: Germany will require all petrol stations to provide electric car charging

#126

Post by rorykoehler »

askvictor wrote: post #78
qayxc wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most EV drivers have no need to visit charging stations [...] You do realise that we're talking about Germany here, don't you? You cannot apply US standards to a foreign country with 7x the population density and only a ~50% home ownership rate... The fact of the matter is, that half of German households cannot charge their vehicles at home, because they live in a rented apartment. In cities in particular (you know,…

You are totally correct, yet OP's point is still reasonable - this was written from the perspective of a petrol-car driver; moreover, it's a missed opportunity to think differently. Petrol stations require big tanks underground to store the petrol; we don't have pipelines through the city carrying petrol. On the other hand, we do have a massive network of wires carrying electricity. EV charging can so easily be distr…

Don't worry we will line the streets with charge points too

Re: Germany will require all petrol stations to provide electric car charging

#127

Post by kube-system »

Barrin92 wrote: post #98
deelowe wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

OP said home, not house. This would include apartments.

This is how a typical German residential street looks ( https://reidiculoustravels.files.wordpress.com/2013/06/dsc_0... ) It's not really trivial to pack that full of chargers if you don't want to interfer with pedestrians or cyclists.

Couldn't fit anything like this?

https://cdn.nanalyze.com/uploads/2018/12/Largest-Electric-Ve...

Or build it into the lamp posts?

https://drive-green.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/sites/3/2018/07...

https://cdn.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus_asset/file/8733539/ub...

Re: Germany will require all petrol stations to provide electric car charging

#128

Post by rorykoehler »

elihu wrote: post #95
qayxc wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most EV drivers have no need to visit charging stations [...] You do realise that we're talking about Germany here, don't you? You cannot apply US standards to a foreign country with 7x the population density and only a ~50% home ownership rate... The fact of the matter is, that half of German households cannot charge their vehicles at home, because they live in a rented apartment. In cities in particular (you know,…

> The fact of the matter is, that half of German households cannot charge their vehicles at home, because they live in a rented apartment. Do apartments in Germany not have charging stations? And if not, is there a fundamental reason why they can't be remedied somehow in the near-ish future?

My apartment building in Berlin doesn't even have dedicated bathrooms. The shower is in the kitchen. They used to be workers dorms which were converted. They previously had communal facilities and they had to squeeze these in where ever they could when converting. There is on street parking. Really I think the next step isn't EVs but kicking cars out of the neighbourhood altogther. We don't need them. They are mostly used for ego not transport it seems.

Re: Germany will require all petrol stations to provide electric car charging

#129

Post by adrianN »

cgb223 wrote: post #2

While I’m all for a future full of electric cars, I wonder what kind of financial burden this will put on petrol stations or even if charging stations fit the same paradigm as gas pumps since they take much longer to charge

Most petrol stations are on their way out imho. Charging at petrol stations is just a stop-gap measure until curbside charging is widely available. Cars spend 23 hours a day parked. Making a 2kW charger available at most parking spots would eliminate the need for fast charging except for long distance travel.

Re: Germany will require all petrol stations to provide electric car charging

#130

Post by cheschire »

adrianN wrote: post #125
1bc29b36f623ba8 wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> They are toast. Many traditional petrol stations are toast already. The one in the village where I live closed decades ago. The one in the next village only survives because it's got a fairly successful tire business run by the owner's son as a side gig, and because it's the only place in a 30 km radius where you can buy basic necessities like toilet paper, toothpaste, and basic foodstuffs, as well as other goods l…

I'll never understand why people live in places where you have to travel more than 30km to a supermarket.

Freedom from tyranny, perceived or otherwise. Cost. Preference for rural immersion. Social expectations.
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