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iMessage for Windows: A labor of love that will never see light of day (2018)

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Re: iMessage for Windows: A labor of love that will never see light of day (2018)

#71

I came across this article[1] and this thread quoted[0] in article some time ago. I don't think of iMessage as a walled garden, it is almost like a low fence you can see across with a sign that "you must be this cool to participate". iMessage is literally the only reason I have not tried an android phone because I don't want to deal with the fallout of all of my chat threads going back to 2011(?) getting disrupted. I…

Same for me, but with my primary number on Google voice. Google dropped the ball here with an option to compete with iMessage, whether with Voice or Hangouts/Gchat

Re: iMessage for Windows: A labor of love that will never see light of day (2018)

#72
post #65

Funny, I've actually spent a good amount of time tearing apart the iMessage database back in 2016-2017. The queries you end up with are hilarious. Here's one from my website's sample code ``` INNER JOIN chat_message_join ON message.ROWID = chat_message_join.message_id INNER JOIN chat ON chat.ROWID = chat_message_join.chat_id INNER JOIN chat_handle_join ON chat.ROWID = chat_handle_join.chat_id INNER JOIN handle ON han…

I did something very similar, extracting the iMessage database. It works by you making an iTunes backup of your phone, and then accessing a specific file in the backup. I ended up with a query that looks like this (only tested with iOS 8, as I sadly lost interest afterwards):

        WITH groupchat_membership AS (
            SELECT cache_roomnames,
            group_concat(id, ', ') AS members
            FROM (
                SELECT DISTINCT message.cache_roomnames, handle.id
                FROM message
                JOIN handle ON message.handle_id=handle.ROWID
                WHERE message.cache_roomnames IS NOT NULL AND message.is_from_me=0
            )
            GROUP BY cache_roomnames
        ),
        unsorted_messages AS (
            SELECT message.ROWID AS rowid,
            CASE WHEN message.cache_roomnames IS NOT NULL THEN groupchat_membership.members ELSE handle.id END AS recipient,
            CASE WHEN message.is_from_me THEN 'Me' ELSE handle.id END AS sender,
            message.date,
            strftime('%d/%m/%Y %H:%M:%S', datetime(message.date + 978307200, 'unixepoch', 'localtime')) AS human_date,
            CASE WHEN message.cache_has_attachments THEN '' || message.text ELSE message.text END AS text
            FROM message
            LEFT JOIN handle ON message.handle_id=handle.ROWID
            NATURAL LEFT JOIN groupchat_membership
        )
        SELECT unsorted_messages.recipient, sender, human_date, text
        FROM unsorted_messages
        NATURAL LEFT JOIN (
            SELECT recipient, max(date) AS latest_date FROM unsorted_messages GROUP BY recipient
        )
        ORDER BY latest_date DESC, date ASC;

Re: iMessage for Windows: A labor of love that will never see light of day (2018)

#73
post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> iMessage motivates people to people buy iPhones instead of Android Why, though? Does your average iPhone user actually care if the bubbles they see in their chats are blue or green? If so, why? Note that I'm talking about average users. Sure, there are likely a bunch of privacy-conscious users who believe in Apple's commitment to security and privacy and prefer iMessage on those grounds. But otherwise, why? > It wo…

iMessage is a much better user experience. Users associate the blue bubbles with that.

Like pretty much every other messaging app on every phone platform currently existence?

Re: iMessage for Windows: A labor of love that will never see light of day (2018)

#74
post #3

If ever Apple needed to open source server and client code for a public good it is with imessages. Yes it has clear limits with a centralized server, but it is realistically how a lot of “secure” messaging happens and it’s very difficult to endorse being tied to expensive hardware. You can say the same about facetime: it is clearly higher quality than competitors in every experiment I’ve tried, but their refusal to i…

Is't facetime pretty must a standard softphone (eg: sip/srtp) using h264? i wonder if it's only "closed" due to authentication concerns there's not much else to "open up" that's not already

FaceTime has used h.265 since the iPhone 6: https://appleinsider.com/articles/14/09/13/apples-iphone-6-i...

Re: iMessage for Windows: A labor of love that will never see light of day (2018)

#75
post #40
post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

iMessage motivates people to people buy iPhones instead of Android when everyone else in a social circle has it. Why should Apple give up on that? What will Apple gain from making it ubiquitous? It would in fact disappoint many people as now they can't use their phone to distance themselves from the people who don't have that blue circle. Note that I'm arguing from Apple's perspective here. From my own I believe they…

> iMessage motivates people to people buy iPhones instead of Android Why, though? Does your average iPhone user actually care if the bubbles they see in their chats are blue or green? If so, why? Note that I'm talking about average users. Sure, there are likely a bunch of privacy-conscious users who believe in Apple's commitment to security and privacy and prefer iMessage on those grounds. But otherwise, why? > It wo…

Individual SMS is fine. Group SMS stinks. You can’t remove yourself from a conversation unless everyone else moves on to a new thread without you. Also, you don’t get contact names for ad hoc group conversations with new people.

Trying to get people to agree to a proper chat platform is like wrangling cats. If everyone in the group has an iOS device, then there’s no decision to be made.

Re: iMessage for Windows: A labor of love that will never see light of day (2018)

#77
post #20
post #3

If ever Apple needed to open source server and client code for a public good it is with imessages. Yes it has clear limits with a centralized server, but it is realistically how a lot of “secure” messaging happens and it’s very difficult to endorse being tied to expensive hardware. You can say the same about facetime: it is clearly higher quality than competitors in every experiment I’ve tried, but their refusal to i…

Apple built iMessage and FaceTime to move Apple devices. Why would or should they open it? Not to mention, it is probably tied into the hardware at a deep level — it clearly works much better on more modern phones, and better on iOS than MacOS.

Because Apple has signalled an intent to become more service oriented instead of device oriented.

Because theres a limit to how many physical devices they can sell and would like to keep growing after they hit that limit.

Its why Apple Music works on Android and has a Javascript SDK

Re: iMessage for Windows: A labor of love that will never see light of day (2018)

#78

As an iMessage user, I'm happy with a closed ecosystem. I know that's a controversial opinion. I have dozens of channels of communication, and iMessage is the only one I don't get spam on. I really, really like that. Anyone without iMessage can still contact me the same way, via SMS, and they're all grouped in the same place. But I love that in 10+ years of using iMessage, I've never gotten a single unwanted blue mes…

Is there a chance you publicly reveal your other IM contacts? Because as it stands I pretty much never get spam on Instagram, Whatsapp, Line, nor Messenger (FB). I don't even get spam in the "Message Requests" of FB messenger.

The biggest problems are email and phone, which are the two most open systems. I get a decent amount on the ones you listed, but it's not as bad. A few messages a week on each. Most of those have ads, though, too. Different issue, but same problem... a cheap, unavoidable way to force me to see your message. iMessage is the only inbox I feel like I control. No spam, no ads, just friends.

(Not the point, but I'm looking at my Instapainting as we speak! One of my favorite things I own.)

Re: iMessage for Windows: A labor of love that will never see light of day (2018)

#79
post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> iMessage motivates people to people buy iPhones instead of Android Why, though? Does your average iPhone user actually care if the bubbles they see in their chats are blue or green? If so, why? Note that I'm talking about average users. Sure, there are likely a bunch of privacy-conscious users who believe in Apple's commitment to security and privacy and prefer iMessage on those grounds. But otherwise, why? > It wo…

> Why, though? Does your average iPhone user actually care if the bubbles they see in their chats are blue or green? If so, why? They definitely do. Not sure what your age or demographic is, but young folks do care a lot about higher social status which is tied to blue bubble because of iPhone prices. It has nothing to do with privacy though.

I'm 22 and live in a mid-sized city, and I've seen people trying to get into a relationship (or even something more casual, but not a platonic friendship) get rejected because of the dreaded "green bubbles" - and really, I'm not exaggerating. And not from rich people who have the latest iPhone either.

In addition, I have been in friend groups that would exclude Android users because if you have even 1 Android user in a group chat on iMessage, you lose tons of features, like the ability to name the group chat (I'm being completely serious here; this was considered an important thing). The work around was "we'll take you out of this chat, and if something important happens someone will send you a text" - of course, it's not very easy to always remember to send that person an SMS, so they end up _very_ left out of things. This has also happened with middle-class people.

Re: iMessage for Windows: A labor of love that will never see light of day (2018)

#80
post #11
post #3

If ever Apple needed to open source server and client code for a public good it is with imessages. Yes it has clear limits with a centralized server, but it is realistically how a lot of “secure” messaging happens and it’s very difficult to endorse being tied to expensive hardware. You can say the same about facetime: it is clearly higher quality than competitors in every experiment I’ve tried, but their refusal to i…

iMessage motivates people to people buy iPhones instead of Android when everyone else in a social circle has it. Why should Apple give up on that? What will Apple gain from making it ubiquitous? It would in fact disappoint many people as now they can't use their phone to distance themselves from the people who don't have that blue circle. Note that I'm arguing from Apple's perspective here. From my own I believe they…

They could offer a proxy service that lets people interact with conversations in a secure way but still keep the bubble green.
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