Millions of Americans skipping payments as wave of defaults and evictions looms • Hacker News Board

Re: Millions of Americans skipping payments as wave of defaults and evictions looms

#251

Post by thephyber » Wed, Jun 03, 2020, 11:56 PM UTC

MattGaiser wrote: post #37

cft wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wonder who downvotes this and why.

QE has been going on for years since 2008. Still waiting on that inflation. https://www.usinflationcalculator.com/inflation/historical-i... QE contains an easy break on inflation. If it starts surging, the market can just have the assets the fed holds added back to it.

> Still waiting on that inflation.

You're waiting on CPI inflation.

The inflation that did actually happen was in equities, startup valuations, risk-adjusted debt (interest rates are far lower than the underlying risk would be without QE), fine art, yachts, healthcare, college tuition, etc. None of these are in the CPI because they aren't consumer staples.

Re: Millions of Americans skipping payments as wave of defaults and evictions looms

#252

Post by jungletime » Wed, Jun 03, 2020, 11:56 PM UTC

inetknght wrote: post #178

jungletime wrote: post #153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're very lucky. Rented to a single mother with two teenage sons. The teenage sons that decided to strip down living trees of their branches, to make bonfires for parties in the backyard. Two trees are severely damaged, and anything that was burnable in the landscape is burnt. I don't even know how to go about pricing out the damage. Insurance is paying for their rent, because the last house they lived in burned do…

I'm not a lawyer but reddit's r/legaladvice seems to enjoy referring to people to tree lawyers. From what I gather there's a lot of money involved in tree laws. And if you've got picture evidence that's especially loved by lawyers.

Is she personally responsible, or is the insurance that is paying for the rent responsible. She signed the lease, but her insurance company is paying the rent. I would like to have some sort of compensation, to cover the cost to relandscape, and possibly for removing a very large tree which is likely to die now.

Re: Millions of Americans skipping payments as wave of defaults and evictions looms

#253

Post by downerending » Wed, Jun 03, 2020, 11:57 PM UTC

pnw_hazor wrote: post #94

A wave of more layoffs will happen as soon as the Paycheck Protection quiet period ends. After June 30, companies that took PPP money are free to fire people without repercussion.

Probably. Though with some weird details. I'm actually getting paid more right now being "furloughed", with the approval of my employer and (tacitly) the state. When the "don't work" bonus ends, I'll revert to full time.

Re: Millions of Americans skipping payments as wave of defaults and evictions looms

#254

Post by mydongle » Wed, Jun 03, 2020, 11:58 PM UTC

Alupis wrote: post #210

mydongle wrote: post #171

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All that proves is how deeply underpaid those jobs were. Say that $1600/wk is perfectly livable for her. That means formerly, she was working at a job that did not pay her enough to live, but she was forced to because the alternative is worse. Arguably, for many people, they could live on even less than that. Countless people who are forced to be in the job market, slaving away at crappy jobs at the threat of poverty…

> All that proves is how deeply underpaid those jobs were. How does it do that? The CARES Act specifically pays money per week in addition to what unemployment pays. So, whatever you made before, even if it was a sustainable wage, you make more by not working right now, even if you could be working.

It's a temporary stimulus payment anyway. We all paid for it.

It helps a lot of people who really needed it, especially hourly wage workers in the service industry who instantly took a hit from the shutdowns and these workers tend to not have healthcare insurance to begin with due to the low wages. It would be foolish for someone who had a well paying job with benefits to permanently stop working for "more" money on paper temporarily, especially considering you would also risk being unemployable afterward. Does +$600 to your weekly pay outweigh the health benefits that you got while being employed?

Re: Millions of Americans skipping payments as wave of defaults and evictions looms

#255

Post by usaar333 » Wed, Jun 03, 2020, 11:59 PM UTC

aphextron wrote: post #36

walterbell wrote: post #7

If there is no spike in infections within two weeks, from areas which had large public protests in the past week, can millions of Americans be helped by restarting the economy?

>If there is no spike in infections within two weeks, from areas which had large public protests in the past week, can millions of Americans be helped by restarting the economy? Daily new infections have more than doubled here in North Carolina in the last two weeks since "reopening" [0]. We have had more new cases in the last two weeks (2200) than in the entire length of lockdown from March until then (2000). The de…

> Daily new infections have more than doubled here in North Carolina in the last two weeks since "reopening"

Confirmed cases, not infections. The hospitalization numbers are about 30% higher or so which is about-ish how much new deaths have increased. Which is bad, but not 2x bad.

All said, NC may have one of the highest spike of any state (reopened or not). Texas and Florida have flat hospitalizations; Georgia is slightly decreasing.

Re: Millions of Americans skipping payments as wave of defaults and evictions looms

#256

Post by downerending » Wed, Jun 03, 2020, 11:59 PM UTC

aphextron wrote: post #36

walterbell wrote: post #7

If there is no spike in infections within two weeks, from areas which had large public protests in the past week, can millions of Americans be helped by restarting the economy?

>If there is no spike in infections within two weeks, from areas which had large public protests in the past week, can millions of Americans be helped by restarting the economy? Daily new infections have more than doubled here in North Carolina in the last two weeks since "reopening" [0]. We have had more new cases in the last two weeks (2200) than in the entire length of lockdown from March until then (2000). The de…

> The dream of this thing just magically going away is absolutely delusional.

Since we don't really know what's going on yet, almost anything that happens is going to seem kind of magical. Right now we're operating on guesswork and superstition.

Re: Millions of Americans skipping payments as wave of defaults and evictions looms

#257

Post by wishinghand » Wed, Jun 03, 2020, 11:59 PM UTC

dv_dt wrote: post #59

bshipp wrote: post #17

This is just the start. Landlords would be smart to work with tenants to share some of the loss and renegotiate temporary adjustments to keep at least some revenue coming in because the heady days of high demand for rental units is likely behind us for a while. It'll be worse in downtown areas. I've heard from multiple firms that are looking at downsizing their expensive office space and continuing to allow employees…

Unfortunately, as part of the unfolding of the post 2008 recession, a lot of rentals shifted from individual or smaller landlords to larger corporate landlords whom take a much more impersonal approach to making it through the depression. To some degree, to the extent they can take out holdover loans and let rentals sit empty, they will do just that - irregardless of the social utility of compromise. https://www.thea…

I wonder if that explains my current place. There was a recent ownership change and right before that the owners cut down the shade trees for the house. There's no air conditioning so back in April it was already getting too hot to stay indoors. The lease renewal is in June so when the new, corporate management company asked us if we wanted to stay and that they were generously not going to raise rent, we asked they either lower the rent or figure out a cooling situation. They balked so we walked and they didn't flinch at all. They were honestly surprised we weren't going to take such a deal.

Re: Millions of Americans skipping payments as wave of defaults and evictions looms

#258

Post by quickthrower2 » Thu, Jun 04, 2020, 12:00 AM UTC

dogma1138 wrote: post #222

quickthrower2 wrote: post #172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The government could build affordable housing and rent it out at a reasonable price. "Council houses" as they are called in the UK are built very well. They are often ugly, but I'm sure that these days they can be built well, cheaply and made to look OK.

The vast majority of council houses in the U.K. are owned by private landlords who rent to the council. No one wants to live in Social housing projects in the U.K. and for a good reason they are all rubbish, the U.K. has had some of the worst designed and built social blocks in the world many of them were demolished within 1-2 decades. Stuffing poor people into high density housing is a horrible idea every study show…

Counterpoints:

1. Not all social housing is high rise or high density. Look outside of the cities for example - new towns. Lessons can be learned this time.

2. Much of the social housing was sold off in the 80's I think, the trick is to keep government ownership of it, not sell it for a pittance and let private landlords profit from price increases.

Re: Millions of Americans skipping payments as wave of defaults and evictions looms

#259

Post by dmarlow » Thu, Jun 04, 2020, 12:01 AM UTC

JadeNB wrote: post #74

dmarlow wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> if they can't pay the hundred bucks the government won't I sure don't care I used to have this same mentality. Until the person who was renting one of my properties decided to lie about certain issues (like claiming a shampoo bottle lodged down one of the toilets was there for years). When I decided to not renew the lease with that tenant, they decided to cause considerable damage to our property. Sometimes, when t…

> I used to have this same mentality. Until the person who was renting one of my properties decided to lie about certain issues (like claiming a shampoo bottle lodged down one of the toilets was there for years). When I decided to not renew the lease with that tenant, they decided to cause considerable damage to our property. Surely the lesson here is that "this person was a criminally inconsiderate jerk", not "all S…

I'm not sure where you jumped to the conclusion about denying housing. I have no problems with section 8. I gladly accept section 8. What I have a problem with is (and I speak from first hand experience), is allowing someone who is on section 8 to not pay their portion. I allowed this, got burned and learned a lesson.

I thought I was being kind and "helping them out". When, in reality, that individual didn't appreciate it and they didn't take better care of the place because of it. When other factors (e.g. the lying) caused me to not want to renew with the tenant, they caused over 10k damage and flooded my house in retaliation.

Re: Millions of Americans skipping payments as wave of defaults and evictions looms

#260

Post by thephyber » Thu, Jun 04, 2020, 12:04 AM UTC

TuringNYC wrote: post #181

thephyber wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't disagree, but it's important to remember that when rent control is proposed, it's because some people are very desperate. It would behoove us to suggest viable alternatives every time it's proposed and we shoot it down.

After my father died, my mother rented out the lower floor of her home. I think your definition of desperate is unfair it it includes only tenants. Not all "landlords" are taking on the headache of renting out units because they are professional landlords -- many are similarly disparate, have mortgage payments, property tax, repairs, utilities, etc. I'd be in more favor of rent control if it would also freeze propert…

Yeah, lots of the problems with rent control are related to it being an unfair disadvantage to some (usually not all) landlords and they have expenses as well.

But again: the reason rent control is passed is because enough people with significant political leverage were hurting. We need to be able to show them a better alternative if we don't want the pain of rent control's (un?)intended consequences to linger.