Millions of Americans skipping payments as wave of defaults and evictions looms • Hacker News Board

Re: Millions of Americans skipping payments as wave of defaults and evictions looms

#181

Post by TuringNYC » Wed, Jun 03, 2020, 11:21 PM UTC

thephyber wrote: post #146

twblalock wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is yet another reason in the long list of reasons why rent control is a bad policy.

I don't disagree, but it's important to remember that when rent control is proposed, it's because some people are very desperate. It would behoove us to suggest viable alternatives every time it's proposed and we shoot it down.

After my father died, my mother rented out the lower floor of her home. I think your definition of desperate is unfair it it includes only tenants. Not all "landlords" are taking on the headache of renting out units because they are professional landlords -- many are similarly disparate, have mortgage payments, property tax, repairs, utilities, etc.

I'd be in more favor of rent control if it would also freeze property taxes, electrician bills, utility costs. It is turtles all the day down.

Re: Millions of Americans skipping payments as wave of defaults and evictions looms

#182

Post by staycoolboy » Wed, Jun 03, 2020, 11:21 PM UTC

avancemos wrote: post #13

Lockdowns are effective as tourniquets, but indefinite or long term use was never logical. There should have been more forward-thinking and pragmatic options pushed earlier. We will now see the natural repercussions of lockdown-centered policies.

I think you may have misunderstood the point of lockdowns.

Lockdowns are/were intended to prevent jamming hospitals with COVID patients which would lead to non-COVID emergencies being put at risk.

The idea is to lockdown an area not to STOP, but to SLOW the trickle of new patients into hospitals at a rate they can be serviced: e.g., balancing the pipeline. In anticipation of the huge surges seen in the North East US, many hospitals built-out their capacity but didn't need it. Thankfully, and hopefully they will not.

As for "natural repercussions," the different phased-reopening plans that governors are drawing up all share the same thing: let's try opening a little, and if the cases shoot up again, lock down if hospitals are at risk of overflowing. We just don't have a national policy, it is patchworks of different state alliances.

It was the best idea at the time, and we all know the only other proposed solution was to NOT lock down and let those who are susceptible pay the price. Some people on the news vocally approved of that idea, most people did not according to surveys.

Re: Millions of Americans skipping payments as wave of defaults and evictions looms

#183

Post by ianlevesque » Wed, Jun 03, 2020, 11:21 PM UTC

jungletime wrote: post #153

ngngngng wrote: post #47

I'm so extremely grateful that I accepted section 8 tenants into my rental units. Most of these tenants have nearly all of their payment covered by the government and they just have to pay $100 or $200 on top of that to cover what the government won't. These tenants are often not accepted by landlords because they're thought to cause more issues. Mine are great. They keep the units spotless, mow the lawn for me on my…

You're very lucky. Rented to a single mother with two teenage sons. The teenage sons that decided to strip down living trees of their branches, to make bonfires for parties in the backyard. Two trees are severely damaged, and anything that was burnable in the landscape is burnt. I don't even know how to go about pricing out the damage. Insurance is paying for their rent, because the last house they lived in burned do…

These stories that come out of the woodwork every time tenants are mentioned are why I’ll never be a landlord.

Re: Millions of Americans skipping payments as wave of defaults and evictions looms

#184

Post by wolco » Wed, Jun 03, 2020, 11:21 PM UTC

novok wrote: post #159

JadeNB wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I used to have this same mentality. Until the person who was renting one of my properties decided to lie about certain issues (like claiming a shampoo bottle lodged down one of the toilets was there for years). When I decided to not renew the lease with that tenant, they decided to cause considerable damage to our property. Surely the lesson here is that "this person was a criminally inconsiderate jerk", not "all S…

There is a 'blood from a stone' aspect from lower income tenants. If they trash a house and cause six figure damages to your property, your not getting your money back, and typically landlord insurance does not cover intentional damage: https://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:CoWtuC... Also people growing up in poverty experience higher stress, so the probability of them doing the 'going mental' thing i…

If a rich person or rich person's kid cause this damage. Expect them not to pay and expect lawsuits.

You have to be careful who you rent to. Sometimes someone down on their luck would make a much less demanding and better tenant overall. Be careful chasing away the poor because they actual need your place and may take better care.

Re: Millions of Americans skipping payments as wave of defaults and evictions looms

#185

Post by bshipp » Wed, Jun 03, 2020, 11:21 PM UTC

notJim wrote: post #112

lacker wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In some places, like Oakland and Tahoe, rent seems to be going up. But in San Francisco it is going down. Probably all as a result of people fleeing San Francisco to nearby places with a cheaper rent per square foot.

Are that many people really moving away? I understand the logic, but it's a major life decision, so I'm surprised if it's happening so rapidly in response to covid. I've heard of people leaving the city temporarily, but assumed many of them were maintaining their apartments. I would have guessed the lower rents were more about money drying up, and landlords being desperate to hang onto any tenant who can pay.

You're right; the immediate response is driven by cash flow. The situation im talking about is likely a year or more away as many commercial firms are in longterm leases.

I'm just saying that its definitely on the horizon given the conversations I'm having, even if evidence at the moment is scant.

Re: Millions of Americans skipping payments as wave of defaults and evictions looms

#186

Post by tinza123 » Wed, Jun 03, 2020, 11:23 PM UTC

thephyber wrote: post #180

tinza123 wrote: post #62

As a passive real estate investor I'm seeing bidding on new sales has actually been more competitive than ever in my area (Atlanta GA). A lot of houses are selling above asking prices with 8-10 offers on the table. I am not sure if people genuinely think it is a good time to buy, or is it mostly FOMO.

I think people who can work from home and who didn't get laid off are fine and the stonks appeared to mostly recover (which may explain some of the money sloshing around the market). I think there will be massive economic damage in 6 months that we aren't focusing on right now.

I agree. A good portion of the 40m job loss are not gonna be fully recovered even if the situation improved a little, not to mention it is getting worse by the day.

Re: Millions of Americans skipping payments as wave of defaults and evictions looms

#187

Post by ivalm » Wed, Jun 03, 2020, 11:23 PM UTC

inetknght wrote: post #178

jungletime wrote: post #153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're very lucky. Rented to a single mother with two teenage sons. The teenage sons that decided to strip down living trees of their branches, to make bonfires for parties in the backyard. Two trees are severely damaged, and anything that was burnable in the landscape is burnt. I don't even know how to go about pricing out the damage. Insurance is paying for their rent, because the last house they lived in burned do…

I'm not a lawyer but reddit's r/legaladvice seems to enjoy referring to people to tree lawyers. From what I gather there's a lot of money involved in tree laws. And if you've got picture evidence that's especially loved by lawyers.

But section 8 tenants don’t have money to compensate either.

Re: Millions of Americans skipping payments as wave of defaults and evictions looms

#188

Post by Barrin92 » Wed, Jun 03, 2020, 11:24 PM UTC

nickff wrote: post #144

Barrin92 wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure, but the US economy doesn't just run on food. In that particular sector the price increases make inuitive sense, as consumption is expected to stay mostly steady while supply chains have been heavily impacted. Inflation is measured, for very obvious reasons, by looking at the general price level of goods and services in the economy, not just any given sector.

I agree that there's little sign of unusually high general inflation, but you said "there's no indication of inflation let alone hyperinflation in any economic data", and the sudden rise in food prices is definitely an indication of inflation. You may want to coach/moderate your statements a little more in the future.

No, I don't need to do that to be honest. A 2% increase in food prices while the general price levels fall is not an indication of inflation unless someone redefines inflation and cherry picks data to advance their cause. (In this case the annual doomsday prediction about inflation, which is normal on HN with its substantial contingent of people who rant about fiat money).

Re: Millions of Americans skipping payments as wave of defaults and evictions looms

#189

Post by JMTQp8lwXL » Wed, Jun 03, 2020, 11:24 PM UTC

inetknght wrote: post #178

jungletime wrote: post #153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're very lucky. Rented to a single mother with two teenage sons. The teenage sons that decided to strip down living trees of their branches, to make bonfires for parties in the backyard. Two trees are severely damaged, and anything that was burnable in the landscape is burnt. I don't even know how to go about pricing out the damage. Insurance is paying for their rent, because the last house they lived in burned do…

I'm not a lawyer but reddit's r/legaladvice seems to enjoy referring to people to tree lawyers. From what I gather there's a lot of money involved in tree laws. And if you've got picture evidence that's especially loved by lawyers.

It probably isn't worthwhile to litigate against Section 8 voucher recipients. Not much in terms of assets to recover for your monetary damages.

Re: Millions of Americans skipping payments as wave of defaults and evictions looms

#190

Post by joshstrange » Wed, Jun 03, 2020, 11:24 PM UTC

cycrutchfield wrote: post #19

avancemos wrote: post #13

Lockdowns are effective as tourniquets, but indefinite or long term use was never logical. There should have been more forward-thinking and pragmatic options pushed earlier. We will now see the natural repercussions of lockdown-centered policies.

Nobody was ever advocating for indefinite or long-term lockdown policies. That's a strawman.

Exactly. It was time to get our feet under us, get PPE, get testing capacity up, get contract tracing in place etc. Kentucky, my state, has started opening up but is watching the numbers closely. No one wants to stay locked down.

It's going to be very interesting going forward. The American public (myself included more times than I would care to admit) is really good about moving on and having a short-term memory on things (Lots of these things happened back in 1918 with masks, social distancing, lockdowns, people hating the lockdowns, etc). I worry what happens when you couple that urgency to move on with something that, from all indications, cannot be swept under the rug.