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Lenovo to Certify ThinkPad and ThinkStation Workstation Portfolio for Linux

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Re: Lenovo to Certify ThinkPad and ThinkStation Workstation Portfolio for Linux

#181

Post by type0 »

nominated1 wrote: post #174
_-david-_ wrote: post #166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Some Thinkpads that are not supported provide bootable isos that you can use to update your bios. It is my understanding that it also updates the firmware (but it doesn't explicitly say). Here is an E model that has a bootable iso: https://pcsupport.lenovo.com/us/en/products/laptops-and-netb...

Yes, many vendors for many models do the same. Even if they don’t you could install it via Windows. “Support” is more than just the ability to install an update. It’s to do with whether an issue affecting Linux is being addressed. In the case of the E and L series Thinkpads there are many shared components with the T series so your chances are much better.

> Even if they don’t you could install it via Windows.

Some enterprise PCs only have Windows, DOS and RHEL, SUSE options. There's no reason to use Windows when you can update BIOS and firmware via CentOS Live image with RHEL binaries.

Re: Lenovo to Certify ThinkPad and ThinkStation Workstation Portfolio for Linux

#182

Post by blacksmith_tb »

RMPR wrote: post #138
fluffything wrote: post #61

I have a Lenovo Thinkpad Yoga that claims to be certified by both Lenovo and Canonical for Ubuntu. Finger print sensor doesn't work, the fans are super loud all the time, audio doesn't work (requires a newer Linux kernel than the one shipped in the latest Ubuntu), EFI problems, sleep, hibernate, fast-boot, restore from hibernate problems, battery life on Linux is horrible... So at least the certification for Ubuntu i…

For new hardware Ubuntu isn't exactly the distribution I would recommend. You may have a better chance trying a distro like Fedora or Arch. Speaking from my personal experience I have a X1 Yoga 1st gen and installed then updated Fedora from 29 to 31 it's a pretty much hassle-free process (apart from the fingerprint, which never worked in the first place and I don't use it anyway), I postpone the update from 31 to 32…

Hmm, given the popularity of Ubuntu, isn't also possible there are more bug reports just because more people use it? I installed 20.04 onto a new Asus laptop a couple of months ago, everything worked out of the box.

Re: Lenovo to Certify ThinkPad and ThinkStation Workstation Portfolio for Linux

#183

Post by blacksmith_tb »

ornornor wrote: post #112
fluffything wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I run Arch Linux on mine, with the latest kernel, and custom tools (think fan), and some things disabled (fast boot), and it becomes "usable". That's ok for any Laptop that isn't advertised as "Ubuntu certified". But I literally had to uninstall Ubuntu and install Arch to get audio and microphone back to work after the 19.04 update broke it, and some dev mentioning on the bug report that the fix wouldn't land on 20.0…

That’s probably not what people want to hear but I learned over the years that it’s best to stay one LTS version behind on Ubuntu. I’m running 18.04 and won’t upgrade to 20.04 until next year because Ubuntu always has bugs 6–9 months after release. Also, MS and Apple charge for their software. Linux OS are free. That doesn’t absolve Lenovo from selling “certified” laptops that aren’t compatible though. I also find th…

I used to be more superstitious about that, but now the most cautious I think I'd recommend being would be to wait for the first point version (e.g. 20.04.1). Ubuntu has been a lot less surprising since 14.04 or so, for me.

How do Apple charge for their software? They do sell things like Logic Pro I suppose, but not the OS itself.

Re: Lenovo to Certify ThinkPad and ThinkStation Workstation Portfolio for Linux

#184

Post by everybodyknows »

_-david-_ wrote: post #166
nominated1 wrote: post #162

When looking at Linux support I start with the Linux Vendor Firmware Service [1]. If the model I’m looking at isn’t supported then it’s off my list. You’ll notice that not all Thinkpads are supported [2]. The E, L and Yoga series are not supported but the T, P and X series are. [1] https://fwupd.org/ [2] https://fwupd.org/lvfs/search?&value=thinkpad

Some Thinkpads that are not supported provide bootable isos that you can use to update your bios. It is my understanding that it also updates the firmware (but it doesn't explicitly say). Here is an E model that has a bootable iso: https://pcsupport.lenovo.com/us/en/products/laptops-and-netb...

My L560 is seemingly supported through fwup -- provided the existing firmware is not too old:

fwupdmgr commands fail with:

  Not compatible with firmware version 0.1.22, requires >= 0.1.42
And indeed history on fwupd.org goes back only to 0.1.43:

https://fwupd.org/lvfs/devices/com.lenovo.ThinkPadN1HET.firm...

Leaving a bootable ISO as apparently the only option. The snag being that the documentation refers only to Windows, and describes various Windows-UEFI interactions.

https://download.lenovo.com/pccbbs/mobiles/n1hur35w.txt

So, the $1500 question is, could there be some hidden risk of bricking the laptop, at least for Linux installations?

Re: Lenovo to Certify ThinkPad and ThinkStation Workstation Portfolio for Linux

#185

Post by hvis »

Lendal wrote: post #146
RMPR wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For new hardware Ubuntu isn't exactly the distribution I would recommend. You may have a better chance trying a distro like Fedora or Arch. Speaking from my personal experience I have a X1 Yoga 1st gen and installed then updated Fedora from 29 to 31 it's a pretty much hassle-free process (apart from the fingerprint, which never worked in the first place and I don't use it anyway), I postpone the update from 31 to 32…

This is my experience. I don't get the fascination with Ubuntu. Whenever I hear about something that doesn't work it's always Ubuntu. That could be confirmation bias though. From my perspective it's old & busted vs Fedora's hot & sexy, using more up to date software revs everywhere you look. It's low maintenance (unlike Manjaro/Arch) yet still fresh. You have a choice of desktops, or no desktop at all. There is Fedor…

> There is clearly a huge amount of work put into producing Fedora yet it has less users.

You're saying that like no work is being put into new Ubuntu's releases. Or its developers don't contribute to GNOME, for instance.

I tried Fedora Core several years ago. Got some broken package resolutions the very same day.

Reinstalled to Ubuntu, it had been more stable (probably simply thanks to 'apt', but still), and I didn't bother with Fedora since. Also, I'm not relishing having to learn rpm/yum/whatisname, with its new arguments, its different set of capabilities, and different names for packages I'm already familiar with.

Speaking of "modern and advanced", though, does it also support the NVIDIA driver's new "offload" PRIME mode? The one where you don't need to reboot or even relogin to use the discrete card.

Re: Lenovo to Certify ThinkPad and ThinkStation Workstation Portfolio for Linux

#186

Post by dahfizz »

fluffything wrote: post #154
dahfizz wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have a new X1 Carbon 7th gen, and it was definitely a lot of work to get it set up. But after tinkering and some kernel updates (Fedora >> Ubuntu for new hardware) I couldn't be happier. Incredible performance, all day battery life, etc. I have a friend who got their finger print sensor working but I never bothered to try. I also have had great experience with fwup. I've gotten tons of bios, firmware, microcode etc…

Maybe the X1 Carbon 7th gen has a bit better support than the Yoga I have, but that gives me hopes that everything will work one day (although some user below has your exact same Laptop and they complain below that Audio does not work for them, which is the same problem I used to have with Ubuntu, so maybe this is a Debian/Ubuntu issue that others distros do not have). FWIW, I've also used fwup and it has worked perf…

The sound card just needs the up to date SOF driver. It works out of the box on Fedora 32.

Re: Lenovo to Certify ThinkPad and ThinkStation Workstation Portfolio for Linux

#187

Post by gerdesj »

blaser-waffle wrote: post #117
gerdesj wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Gentoo was the most reliant by a long shot (maybe for the simple reason it always asked if it should replace my config), but that is a time sink in whole other league." I think I can see Arch showing off a bit of ankle at you. Think of Arch as a bit like Gentoo without the burning lap.

If I was still in college I'd be trying to trick out an Arch build and post screenshots of my hyper-cool DE. But now I'm a fatass network engineer and I don't have the desire to spend an iota of energy doing config work outside of actual paid work. Ubuntu and Fedora just work, and only require a heafty apt/yum one-liner to make everything work. Arch is awesome -- the Arch Wiki is useful even for non-Arch users -- but…

I'm a company director (MD) and I do not spend much time fiddling with my gear. I expect it to simply work and it does. I document my builds/configurations in both my corp wiki and the Arch wiki (stuff that is generic.) On a Fri afternoon I run "yay -Syu" and reboot. I deploy Ubuntu minimal for servers. I document those as well.

My personal systems are not exciting. I login with Active Directory creds and I have an Exchange account for email. I just happen to have multiple CAD apps available and lots of other stuff out of the box. When I update my PCs/laptops the whole lot update and off I trot. I get the occasional bit of breakage but because Arch is rolling it is only a small problem at a time and not a massive total meltdown.

I'm 50 next year - I studied Civ Eng at college. I am a fat ass PHB and sysadmin all in one package. I should also point out that my company is running reasonably happily despite SARS-CoV-2, so I think me and my two partners have done a reasonable job of the PHB thing. We still have all of our 20 employees and expect to come out with a (low n) £n00,000 loss on the books due to a virus. Happily we had >£n00,000 in the bank before hand to deal with unforeseen cash flow snags because we are boring and like to sleep at night.

To summarise: Don't diss Arch (or Gentoo) as a silly ricer distro. If you approach a problem with a true engineer's attitude and an open mind then unlikely solutions can arise. Also, keep some cash under the mattress for a rainy day.

Re: Lenovo to Certify ThinkPad and ThinkStation Workstation Portfolio for Linux

#188

Post by pyrophane »

RMPR wrote: post #142
pyrophane wrote: post #132

My experience running Fedora Linux on a Thinkpad P1 Gen 2: It's mostly very good! - I'm running Fedora 32 and using Gnome. I love it. Gnome continues to improve a lot with each release, and overall the operating system feels very stable. I can't think of the last time I saw any error. - This machine doesn't have great battery life regardless of what OS you are running, but after properly configuring the GPU, battery…

>This machine doesn't have great battery life regardless of what OS you are running, but after properly configuring the GPU, battery life on linux is on par with Windows if not a bit better. I've also undervolted the cpu, which is easy to do and provides even better batter life. You can gain a couple of minutes using a WM instead of a full fledged DE >Docker is still a pain to set up on 32. There's no docker-ce repo,…

I'd love to use podman but have some use cases it doesn't yet support

Re: Lenovo to Certify ThinkPad and ThinkStation Workstation Portfolio for Linux

#189

Post by amachefe »

prennert wrote: post #27

After IBM acquired Red Hat I was once asked what I am hoping to come out of this acquisition. My answer was that for me personally the hope was to have more Linux ready machines and laptops available in the end consumer market (i.e. non server, non cloud market). Although the Thinkpads are long not anymore IBM products, somehow I was still hoping for the closer connection between hardware and OS know how in the form…

Just thinking about it, If IBM didnt sell the PC to Lenovo, packaging Fedora/RH with the PC would have been awesome... #justathought

Re: Lenovo to Certify ThinkPad and ThinkStation Workstation Portfolio for Linux

#190

Post by washadjeffmad »

Havoc wrote: post #31
vetinari wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you really need nvidia so badly, put that GPU into headless machine, where you don't need any UI. Otherwise, you will be frustrated on desktop and it still won't work out of the box.

>put that GPU into headless machine Possibly one of the saddest solutions ever proposed. Besides then one can’t game on it

With VFIO on KVM, you can. You can make your own Stadia with actual games that way with a raspi running SteamLink.
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