Is a trillion dollars’ worth of programming lying on the ground?

Post by joelbluminator » Wed, Jun 03, 2020, 9:05 PM UTC

skissane wrote: post #210

joelbluminator wrote: post #199

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, looks like a great place lately you're totally right

I used to talk to my wife about moving to the US. It would be good for my career I'm sure. Then there was a school shooting. And my wife said "We are not moving to the US". And I didn't really have anything to say in response. And then there was another shooting, and another one. And each time she said the same thing, and each time I couldn't really manage a response. Eventually, I stopped talking about moving to the…

Post by [deleted] » Wed, Jun 03, 2020, 9:07 PM UTC

snovv_crash wrote: post #212

frank2 wrote: post #151

My working hypothesis for why programmer-employees in the Bay Area and New York City get paid more is that so many of them have a credible alternative to being an employee, namely becoming a startup founder, which I imagine has helped them in salary negotiations. This map near the start of the OP makes me wonder whether, similar to the markets in the Bay Area and New York, the markets in Switzerland and Norway give p…

Cost of living in these locations is incredibly high. I think as an employee it is easier to negotiate a salary as a multiple of fixed costs of living (rent, food, transport, entertainment).

Post by julienfr112 » Wed, Jun 03, 2020, 9:09 PM UTC

salawat wrote: post #158

kakwa_ wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From an European perspective, this has not exactly been my experience working with an international team. The US collective mentality is sometime overly optimistic specially in public. This is sometimes a positive since it removes almost any inhibition regarding challenges, but it can lead to things blowing-up spectacularly, and then having to put in place hacks and brute force to make it kind of work relatively inef…

Can confirm this is a problematic aspect of our culture. I'm one of the people who's entire professional niche is being the counterweight to this positivism. Endemic to the way things are done is the understanding that forgiveness is often easier to attain than permission, and unfortunately putting your foot down and holding otherwise is rather frowned upon, or at least gets you marked as needing to be handled delica…

Post by [deleted] » Wed, Jun 03, 2020, 9:12 PM UTC

pdimitar wrote: post #211

phkahler wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> you often have to agree, then have a sidebar conversation directly with that person so their negligence, ignorant mistake, or intentional malice isn't put on a large group or public display. That should be obvious. Most people I've worked for can be challenged in private if you've actually got a point - even if you're shot down in the end. The ones who are still assholes when handled correctly are usually not wort…

> That should be obvious. That's exactly what different cultures look like: it's absolutely not obvious in Eastern Europe where I live. We call each other out on our BS freely and directly, and almost nobody ever gets offended. It is quite the cultural shock for many of us when we suddenly have to sugar-coat and positive-tone-first every work criticism we express. It can feel like a huge waste of time and energy whil…

Post by joelbluminator » Wed, Jun 03, 2020, 9:16 PM UTC

snovv_crash wrote: post #213

joelbluminator wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I considered immigrating to Switzerland at some point but the heavy emphasis on local languages (even in programming jobs) put me off. It's much more relaxed in the Netherlands.

Depends what kind of programming job. A manufacturing setup which hires a lot of trade-school labor, sure. A startup, less so. Also, learning the local language helps integrating once you arrive.