Police attacks against journalists across the U.S. since May 28 • Hacker News Board

Re: Police attacks against journalists across the U.S. since May 28

#771

Post by dbsmith83 » Wed, Jun 03, 2020, 3:46 PM UTC

jascii wrote: post #760

jcims wrote: post #742

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Look people can build killdozers and flatten police buildings for all i care. The point is that blocking traffic is an escalation that could literally cost lives, either by denying travel in an emergency or by putting cars and human bodies in conflict.

We should really have laws against commuting, commuters block traffic way more frequently than protests do.. Work is an escalation that could literally cost lives..

You're just being obtuse now. It's a shame you don't value ordinary people's lives. It's a very privileged position to be in.

Re: Police attacks against journalists across the U.S. since May 28

#772

Post by therealcamino » Wed, Jun 03, 2020, 3:48 PM UTC

monoideism wrote: post #623

vb6sp6 wrote: post #302

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"This doesn't happen" (shows a video of it happening) "This isn't widespread" So how many videos do you need to see? 2? 10? 15???

Yeah, at least 5. I've seen >50 videos of rioters destroying and looting, maybe 5 of them engaging in violence, and maybe 10 of police engaging in excessive force, so I feel pretty comfortable having established that there's a pattern in those activities. I'd like to see about 4-5 of such videos. The more the merrier. I'm totally open to changing my mind.

There's no point in telling us how many videos you've watched in those categories, because "number of videos someone personally watched in each category" tells us more about that person's viewing preferences than the prevalence of those incidents. For example, here's a twitter thread of 170 (so far) videos of police excessive force. If you watch all of these then your updated statement has a different tone.

https://mobile.twitter.com/greg_doucette/status/126675152005...

Re: Police attacks against journalists across the U.S. since May 28

#773

Post by freeone3000 » Wed, Jun 03, 2020, 3:57 PM UTC

lenkite wrote: post #770

freeone3000 wrote: post #764

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Calling up congressmen and senators hasn't solved anything. This has been an issue for thirty years, and no progress has been made. Violent crime is down, police use of force is up. What's going on wasn't working. If you think this is one man, think again. Give me a city and I can give you the unarmed black person killed by police - Dallas, it's Botham Jean. Miami, it's Trayvon Martin. New York, it's Dwayne Brown. Ye…

I got police sensitivity training when I travelled to the US - not a joke. How to talk to a US police officer, etc. Make sure you don't get out of your car - a lot of rules that Americans know implicitly. But police abolition is not going to solve anything for you folks. It will mean an extraordinary increase in crime. I have lived in multiple nations and a strict police is better than police who do nothing. You will…

Measures implied by "police abolition" have been given a good voice here: https://www.motherjones.com/crime-justice/2020/06/police-abo...

What I advocate for is a series of measures where trained members of the community, as a job, are in charge of primarily, defusing conflict, secondarily, preventing crime, and as a last resort, enforcing community standards and laws. No arrest quotas, limited jail, no cash bail, no mandatory minimum sentencing. This sounds like what I hear police are like in other places, but existing police power structures are powerful and resistant to reform, so wholesale replacement appears to be the best tactic.

Re: Police attacks against journalists across the U.S. since May 28

#774

Post by lawnchair_larry » Wed, Jun 03, 2020, 3:59 PM UTC

bigiain wrote: post #665

lawnchair_larry wrote: post #657

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Parent said property damage, not me. So your uncharitable assumptions about my intentions are way off on that point. If you want to reframe the issue from property damage to killing unarmed civilians, take it up with the parent. We were talking about the video of the cop randomly smashing windows. Not surprisingly, your straw man is just as bad. Nobody said or implied anything remotely close to a “shit happens” attit…

You said "stupid and abusive". Not the sort of terminology usually used for "property damage". And yeah, I read (and just reread) your next sentence, and it still reads as a "shit happens" attitude to me. As I read it, you're saying there's nothing we can possibly do to ensure that rate of "stupid and abusive" cops is any lower than the rate of "stupid and rioting" civilians. (Or the most optimistic reading of it I c…

You completely missed the point then and are absolutely wrong about what I said. Have a nice day.

Re: Police attacks against journalists across the U.S. since May 28

#775

Post by therealcamino » Wed, Jun 03, 2020, 4:00 PM UTC

bananaphone234 wrote: post #333

jascii wrote: post #133

Disclaimer: I am a bleeding heart liberal and this may filter my observations. I have been to a few rallies/vigils/marches lately and all incidences of violence that I have witnessed either in person or through media has been instigated by the police. As far as I know,every documented case where a formerly peaceful crowd turns into chaos has been started with police shooting pepperspray, teargas, or whatever into the…

From what I've seen is everything is peaceful during the day time, but after the curfews or when it becomes an unlawful gathering (i.e. blocking interstates etc.) is when police intervene. Which is what they job is supposed to be. The methods used for crowd control are acceptable when things reach the above mentioned criteria. Protests during daylight hours, and not breaking other laws is fully protected by 1st amend…

There are plenty of daytime abuses by the police in this twitter thread.

https://mobile.twitter.com/greg_doucette/status/126675152005...

Re: Police attacks against journalists across the U.S. since May 28

#776

Post by lawnchair_larry » Wed, Jun 03, 2020, 4:03 PM UTC

TheSpiceIsLife wrote: post #531

lawnchair_larry wrote: post #418

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If it were me, and I had a first hand account of what he did and whether he had a justifiable reason, I would have it documented and escalated after returning to the office, hopefully anonymously, or at least confidentially. I would also keep an eye on that officer to see if there were more violations. I would not break formation and try to handcuff another officer in the moment, because it would be strategically unw…

> If it were me Right. Maybe that's why you aren't a police officer. > I would not break formation and try to handcuff another officer in the moment Maybe you should be a police officer. > because it would be strategically unwise Things need to change now . When the police can demonstrate they are able to rein each other in, we can all go home and celebrate.

Way to not read the post. You’re perhaps being a little naive. There is more than one way to accomplish things, and your way is not the most effective way.

Re: Police attacks against journalists across the U.S. since May 28

#777

Post by lawnchair_larry » Wed, Jun 03, 2020, 4:05 PM UTC

freeone3000 wrote: post #692

logfromblammo wrote: post #400

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The expectation of the public is that police should prioritize deterrence and investigation of property crimes above assembling a massive show of force to deprive peaceful protesters of their 1st amendment rights to free speech, to peaceably assemble, and to petition government for redress of their grievances. Cops that are busy kettling up protesters for later official intimidation and violence are not available to…

Right, but then why have the police at all?

You say that now, but when the school shooter is at your kids school, suddenly you’ll think that a police force is a good idea.

We can’t not have police, don’t be ridiculous.

Re: Police attacks against journalists across the U.S. since May 28

#778

Post by loco5niner » Wed, Jun 03, 2020, 4:14 PM UTC

staticassertion wrote: post #603

Auracle wrote: post #589

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The barricade was put by the protestors in front of them, and they were apparently responding to a call. Yes, they should have backed up. My point is that they were attacked first, nothing else. It was kind of a play stupid games scenario - if you do that to someone chances are they’re going to freak out and at best be unpredictable.

They weren't attacked first.

They were. Check out the video. You can clearly see the drivers window is broken, things are being thrown at them left and right, windshield is broken, then the next cop car shows up and people surround it and start punching the windows and windshield.

https://www.insider.com/nypd-cruisers-ram-down-protesters-vi...

Re: Police attacks against journalists across the U.S. since May 28

#779

Post by loco5niner » Wed, Jun 03, 2020, 4:17 PM UTC

logicchains wrote: post #701

freeone3000 wrote: post #693

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They're wearing full bulletproof vests, shields, helmets, and drive up in armored personel carriers. What, pray tell, would a semiauto rifle do against that, other than get you killed?

The example gun-nuts usually point to is that Afghani farmers (and Vietnamese rice farmers) did a pretty good job of giving US soldiers trouble even though the solders were way better equipped.

I don't think that worked out very well for them though.

Re: Police attacks against journalists across the U.S. since May 28

#780

Post by lenkite » Wed, Jun 03, 2020, 4:18 PM UTC

freeone3000 wrote: post #773

lenkite wrote: post #770

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I got police sensitivity training when I travelled to the US - not a joke. How to talk to a US police officer, etc. Make sure you don't get out of your car - a lot of rules that Americans know implicitly. But police abolition is not going to solve anything for you folks. It will mean an extraordinary increase in crime. I have lived in multiple nations and a strict police is better than police who do nothing. You will…

Measures implied by "police abolition" have been given a good voice here: https://www.motherjones.com/crime-justice/2020/06/police-abo... What I advocate for is a series of measures where trained members of the community, as a job, are in charge of primarily, defusing conflict, secondarily, preventing crime, and as a last resort, enforcing community standards and laws. No arrest quotas, limited jail, no cash bail, no…

I read through that article - naive and idealistic. I guess only a first-world citizen will believe it works. And not to put you down - I admire your innocence that you think this will work. This all breaks down as soon as someone from outside the community or someone powerful in the community introduces drugs which kill, a crime boss decides to beat up a few people for protection money, poor people or addicts decide to invade homes to steal your stuff, folks involved in 'community policing' decide to flex their muscles and make their 'fair' judgements which favour their own. You will feel utterly helpless.

Maybe you think all this won't happen. I have lived in poor and powerless communities earlier in life and seen all these things happen without a proper police presence. I had my sister assaulted when I was young and was unable to do anything about it. I despise 'community policing'. The cliques it creates is far worse than the full hammer of the full armed forces.

Anyways, I wish USA the best of luck. I really hope the looting and rioting in NY stops soon.