Police attacks against journalists across the U.S. since May 28 • Hacker News Board

Re: Police attacks against journalists across the U.S. since May 28

#761

Post by ViViDboarder » Wed, Jun 03, 2020, 3:02 PM UTC

ravenstine wrote: post #269

ViViDboarder wrote: post #251

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> More people have been killed and had their lives destroyed as the result of non-protestors taking advantage of the protests to destroy communities. [Citation needed] I find it hard to believe that a few days of these riots has caused more damage and loss of life than generations of racial oppression and police brutality. If you’ve got a source, I’m all ears.

> [Citation needed] If you had simply asked me to share what I know, I would have given you some links. But I have a distaste for the "[Citation Needed]" meme because it's pompous, so I suggest you do some basic research yourself. If you can do 2nd grade arithmetic, you can figure out that 2 or more deaths is greater than 1 death. If you've even watched a minute of TV in the last 5 days, I shouldn't have to argue whe…

> If you had simply asked me to share what I know, I would have given you some links. But I have a distaste for the "[Citation Needed]" meme because it's pompous,

Totally fair. That wasn’t very conservative. I’m sorry.

> That's not even close to what I said.

Could you clarify what you were saying? I directly quoted you, but I’ll admit your sentence isn’t clear. It says “More” but doesn’t indicate “more than what?”, so I assumed you meant the oppression that rioters are responding to. Maybe that’s not the case.

Re: Police attacks against journalists across the U.S. since May 28

#762

Post by leetcrew » Wed, Jun 03, 2020, 3:04 PM UTC

fooster wrote: post #744

leetcrew wrote: post #609

Earlier quoted context omitted.

can you summarize? I'm not willing to listen to a 40 minute podcast to figure out what you're alluding to in your single sentence comment.

You can read the full transcript https://public.simonsays.ai/AXqKjRV1Kken/revisionist-history... . But this paragraph summarizes things pretty well: "Let me spell it out for you: underneath the lofty rhetoric of the patriots of New England was a criminal enterprise. A vast smuggling operation, illicitly supplying the residents of the New World with their drug of choice, bohea, that deliciously addictive tea varietal…

thanks for linking the transcript. if true, that certainly changes the narrative, but I don't think it weakens my main point: dumping the tea in the harbor made sense given their objective, both symbolically and practically. and to the extent that it weakens the narrative of noble freedom fighters, it makes the comparison even weirder.

Re: Police attacks against journalists across the U.S. since May 28

#763

Post by jascii » Wed, Jun 03, 2020, 3:04 PM UTC

jcims wrote: post #749

CathedralBorrow wrote: post #746

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So to help your cause, make sure to never block traffic. Is that a fair understanding of your position?

No. It's that blocking traffic is a material, aggressive escalation of a protest that could have very negative ramifications to the cause. Not only does it really really piss people off, it puts human bodies in direct conflict with vehicles and could potentially block travel to someone that needs urgent medical attention. If that's your jam then go for it. For my part, if i am in a vehicle with family and we are in a…

The way you are firing yourself up to commit homicide over a hypothetical situation is scary. Please seek help.

Re: Police attacks against journalists across the U.S. since May 28

#764

Post by freeone3000 » Wed, Jun 03, 2020, 3:12 PM UTC

lenkite wrote: post #723

freeone3000 wrote: post #688

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So is this how we've decided it's going to be? We have all protesters on one side, and if any protesters do anything bad, all get punished? (I also find some moderate irony in you claiming something doesn't make the news, then linking a news website.)

I can link a dozen twitter videos showing all kinds of people getting badly beat up by protestors - none of which ever made the news as it doesn't fit the progressive narrative - but I don't think its worth it. And frankly, it's not hard to find these by yourself. Everyone now considers general violence and looting as legitimate actions in response to a crime committed by one police officer. Floyd's death was a trage…

Calling up congressmen and senators hasn't solved anything. This has been an issue for thirty years, and no progress has been made. Violent crime is down, police use of force is up. What's going on wasn't working.

If you think this is one man, think again. Give me a city and I can give you the unarmed black person killed by police - Dallas, it's Botham Jean. Miami, it's Trayvon Martin. New York, it's Dwayne Brown. Years and years and so little done.

And now, people are now in the streets in reaction to police violence against people in the streets. If you see protesters being shot with tear gas for the crime of kneeling and shouting, people are going to come out and make their voices heard.

And this is working. Minneapolis Ward 3's district commissioner is calling for police abolition. For once, for absolute once, the media is actually on the side of the protesters, because once they got over the shock, they saw their own being attacked by police just as much. So before you say it doesn't solve anything, look at what it's already accomplished, and look what it can accomplish soon.

Re: Police attacks against journalists across the U.S. since May 28

#765

Post by JamesBarney » Wed, Jun 03, 2020, 3:14 PM UTC

jcims wrote: post #659

JamesBarney wrote: post #650

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But the vast majority of medical conditions where routing around a protest or road closure would cause serious harm to an individual are probably in ambulances.

So just roll the dice that you’re not going to hurt anyone by blocking traffic? Who’s responsible if something does go wrong? That’s going to really help the cause.

There are a million reasons that traffic gets blocked such as parades, funerals, road construction, and traffic accidents.

And I didn't hear anyone make the argument any of those things should be banned to prevent the potential loss of life from someone trying to get to a hospital while not in an ambulance.

It really seems like an isolated demand for safety.

Re: Police attacks against journalists across the U.S. since May 28

#766

Post by JamesBarney » Wed, Jun 03, 2020, 3:16 PM UTC

dbsmith83 wrote: post #655

JamesBarney wrote: post #650

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But the vast majority of medical conditions where routing around a protest or road closure would cause serious harm to an individual are probably in ambulances.

Not really sure what your point is regarding 'vast majority'. How many people's lives are acceptable to endanger? Just today, an interstate was shut down unexpectedly because of protesters. What about everyone who was trapped on that highway and could not move, let alone reroute?

The same amount that is endangered for a parade, a presidential motorcade, or road construction.

Re: Police attacks against journalists across the U.S. since May 28

#767

Post by inetknght » Wed, Jun 03, 2020, 3:37 PM UTC

davidw wrote: post #627

inetknght wrote: post #597

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you describe how fascism has worked in the past? Can you imagine how it might be applied today with modern technology, laws, and court precedents? This isn't fascism of the past.

My reference was to people casually tossing around the word for "people on the right they dislike", when it wasn't really warranted. I'm not good at predicting much of anything, but best guess is that the model is something more like Venezuela/Hungary/Turkey/Russia rather than the variety from the 1930ies.

> My reference was to people casually tossing around the word for "people on the right they dislike", when it wasn't really warranted.

I'm trying to understand why you think it wasn't really warranted. Perhaps it really isn't warranted. But I also think it's possible you are, like you said below, not seeing a bigger picture. I'll take your next sentence in reverse though.

> the model is something more like Venezuela/Hungary/Turkey/Russia rather than the variety from the 1930ies.

I haven't been to Venezuela/Hungary/Turkey/Russia. I did study World War II in early school and a lot of what led up to it though.

> I'm not good at predicting much of anything, but best guess is

I understand not being good at predicting much of anything. Most people are like that!

However, a lot of what our current presidency was doing prior to COVID-19 echoed very strongly about actual events from the late 1920s and early 1930s. And, as a software developer with a strong emphasis on data analysis, I see a lot of differences which make the current situation feel like the 1930s all over again but with liberal amounts of modern technology both overtly and also behind the scenes.

I do think that there are a lot of people who throw words like fascist around just because their emotions are high. That unfortunately happens with any slur. But I also believe that there's a lot of eye-opening moments that make "fascist" less rhetorical than before the current US president was elected.

To be fair, he's built his regime on a lot of laws and court precedent which was established before he was elected. But he's a completely different beast than any previous US president. And I think it's disingenuous to not consider slur in that light and to not combine it with the hidden facets of technology that most people don't think about or understand.

Re: Police attacks against journalists across the U.S. since May 28

#768

Post by dbsmith83 » Wed, Jun 03, 2020, 3:38 PM UTC

JamesBarney wrote: post #766

dbsmith83 wrote: post #655

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not really sure what your point is regarding 'vast majority'. How many people's lives are acceptable to endanger? Just today, an interstate was shut down unexpectedly because of protesters. What about everyone who was trapped on that highway and could not move, let alone reroute?

The same amount that is endangered for a parade, a presidential motorcade, or road construction.

That is a terrible analogy. The key difference is that parades, motorcades, and road construction are planned events. Protesters who unexpectedly stop traffic do not give people opportunity to plan.

side comment: Loving the downvotes for a legitimate point. When did hacker news turn into reddit?

Re: Police attacks against journalists across the U.S. since May 28

#769

Post by dbsmith83 » Wed, Jun 03, 2020, 3:40 PM UTC

JamesBarney wrote: post #765

jcims wrote: post #659

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So just roll the dice that you’re not going to hurt anyone by blocking traffic? Who’s responsible if something does go wrong? That’s going to really help the cause.

There are a million reasons that traffic gets blocked such as parades, funerals, road construction, and traffic accidents. And I didn't hear anyone make the argument any of those things should be banned to prevent the potential loss of life from someone trying to get to a hospital while not in an ambulance. It really seems like an isolated demand for safety.

Terrible analogies. Those are mostly planned things which give people opportunity to plan for.

Re: Police attacks against journalists across the U.S. since May 28

#770

Post by lenkite » Wed, Jun 03, 2020, 3:41 PM UTC

freeone3000 wrote: post #764

lenkite wrote: post #723

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can link a dozen twitter videos showing all kinds of people getting badly beat up by protestors - none of which ever made the news as it doesn't fit the progressive narrative - but I don't think its worth it. And frankly, it's not hard to find these by yourself. Everyone now considers general violence and looting as legitimate actions in response to a crime committed by one police officer. Floyd's death was a trage…

Calling up congressmen and senators hasn't solved anything. This has been an issue for thirty years, and no progress has been made. Violent crime is down, police use of force is up. What's going on wasn't working. If you think this is one man, think again. Give me a city and I can give you the unarmed black person killed by police - Dallas, it's Botham Jean. Miami, it's Trayvon Martin. New York, it's Dwayne Brown. Ye…

I got police sensitivity training when I travelled to the US - not a joke. How to talk to a US police officer, etc. Make sure you don't get out of your car - a lot of rules that Americans know implicitly.

But police abolition is not going to solve anything for you folks. It will mean an extraordinary increase in crime. I have lived in multiple nations and a strict police is better than police who do nothing. You will be at the mercy of crime lords. And no business store owner will open a shop in a police-free district.

All these rioters for freedom and dignity are fine on the TV. When people are on the wrong side of the mob, they change their minds pretty quick.