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People think they're calling restaurants directly but Grubhub is getting a fee

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Re: People think they're calling restaurants directly but Grubhub is getting a fee

#191

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't understand why this isn't treated like domain name hijacking, though. Suppose you want to go to McDonald's. I buy the McDonald's domain name. I put a credit card form on my site, and I "deliver" McDonald's to you. I charge a $40 surcharge for the privilege. There is no way in hell that McDonald's would have to go begging at realmcdonald's.com because of my shenanigans. They'd have no patience for this bullshi…

The Grubhubs and DoorDashes are not logistic services but also marketing services. Most companies sign a marketing agreement with them.

But these contracts are in a way extortionate. If a large fraction of restaurant owners use these services, you better use them too!

How did they ever get into existence then, you may ask? Simple, VC money ...

Re: People think they're calling restaurants directly but Grubhub is getting a fee

#192

It's disheartening that there's so much due diligence required just to conduct the most basic transactions right now. I have a narrow list of vetted restaurants, where I understand the costs and to the business, the delivery model, the safety (food handling and Covid precautions), and I only take out from these particular places. I tried a new place recently, only to find out I had been duped by Grub-hub, even though…

The due diligence is because the restaurants offer a terrible experience. Most still do not have an independent online ordering function. They want me to call. Most still haven't set up meaningful profiles on Yelp and other review sites. So I would need to root around to find contact information. That is in addition to needing to give my credit card over the phone, not knowing how long the order will take, and needin…

> The due diligence is because the restaurants offer a terrible experience.

If this was true Grubhub would gladly put there name on everything, say it in the automated phone call, so people would actively seek them out for a better experience.

Re: People think they're calling restaurants directly but Grubhub is getting a fee

#193
post #190

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> No stupid app to download. No account to create. No bullshit fees. No marketing emails. I just tell them what I want and then go get it. It's refreshing. That's how it always was, I really don't get this disconnect between people wanting to always hide behind a keyboard or smart phone when it comes to food. It's always been the most social thing I do in my entire day, as it has been done since for thousands of year…

> I really don't get this disconnect between people wanting to always hide behind a keyboard or smart phone when it comes to food. I don't want to 'hide', but my social anxiety makes phone conversations with people I don't know a harrowing experience; to make it bearable I need to work through a mental image of how a 'successful' call might go, from greeting through hanging-up, with some variations of what might happ…

> Ordering food via telephone is, to me, the equivalent of trying to use a command line interface without knowing any of the options, and instead of "help" being automated, you have to bother a person who is probably already extremely busy and overworked to clarify the menu. It's also much easier to pay with a credit card via an app or website than over the phone.

I've never heard of this perspective used to describe what takes place when ordering food, you're clearly trying to equate it to a non GUI way of trying to navigate the process as you would when on a computer. Interesting perspective, its seems you think there is some underlying 'protocol' called conversation that you simply don't grasp, or are unaware of, right?

More points to follow below.

> I don't want to 'hide', but my social anxiety makes phone conversations with people I don't know a harrowing experience...

See, this I clearly understand despite personally having had to essentially speak at conferences for a living at one point; as I think people with a clear medical condition need to be accommodated in these situations, but just know that the FOH people taking your order are more likely to be receptive to your order than not because it ensures they A: get to have a job, and B: ultimately rely on satisfying you and providing a good UX in order to get a tip in exchange for said transaction, which is the majority of their overall wages.

Now, the Industry is filled with examples of feckless and quite frankly discontent people so it doesn't always show. But just understand FOH are there to serve you, its called hospitality for a reason and the relationship needs to be approached as such (within reason). Whereas BOH (chefs/cooks) is entirely different domain, which is what I did in that Industry, and requires more nuanced ways of communicating that I won't get into.

As for the payment processing, believe me I did fintech and on the back end its only really beneficial for the end consumer, with several hidden externalizes, as its hardly 'easy' for the business owner and the staff. But credit cards are just a paradigm so ingrained into the collective psyche that it will never go away, what's even more notable is that it was the Diner's Club model in restaurants that made Credit Card usage ubiquitous in the US in the first place.

But, again I totally understand this perspective when described in this way and totally understand why an app or a online order system is preferable.

Re: People think they're calling restaurants directly but Grubhub is getting a fee

#194
post #156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have very minor issues with phone orders that make me prefer online ordering. Restaurants are loud, add in shitty phone signals and heavy accents - the result is communication barriers are common and you have to do a lot of back-and-forth. Another issue is the person taking the order usually has more job duties than just taking phone orders, so they can be distracted if it's busy and forget to write something down…

Yep, same. Every time I order over the phone I'm just hoping the other person understood what I said correctly, because I sure as hell haven't understood anything they said. It's a combination of accents, very loud backgrounds, and English not being my first language.

Had a big order at a pizza place for 9 pizzas. 3 of them came out wrong. All parties involved speak my native language.

The receipt had the wrong items listed on them, because the person taking the order checked the wrong things while taking the order.

I guess it could have been verified better after they took the order, but I can't help but to feel that the order would have been more likely to be correct if I had checked boxes in an online form and verified there before sending it off.

I personally prefer using websites/app for this reason, I can just in my own time make the order, get confirmation from others with me that I'm ordering with and when everyone is happy, just submit. If I ever have the choice between calling vs ordering online, I will never call.

Re: People think they're calling restaurants directly but Grubhub is getting a fee

#195

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In that case the owner is then getting the full price for the food though.

Sure. Is it not wrong to fraudulently impersonate someone else's brand / company?

Reselling is generally legal. There are no particular trademark concerns when it's ultimately the genuine goods getting to the consumer at a different price.

It's very easy to understand why consumers and businesses would be annoyed by this behavior, though, and it may be deceptive or immoral in other ways.

Re: People think they're calling restaurants directly but Grubhub is getting a fee

#196

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't understand why this isn't treated like domain name hijacking, though. Suppose you want to go to McDonald's. I buy the McDonald's domain name. I put a credit card form on my site, and I "deliver" McDonald's to you. I charge a $40 surcharge for the privilege. There is no way in hell that McDonald's would have to go begging at realmcdonald's.com because of my shenanigans. They'd have no patience for this bullshi…

> I don't understand why it's wrong when I do it, but it's not a problem GrubHub does. The same reason that you'd be arrested for running an illegal taxi, but when Uber does it, it's fine. And the same reason that you'd be arrested for running an illegal hotel, but when AirBnB does it, it's okay. Uber and AiBnb spend a lot of money lobbying governments at every level, and on marketing to make what they do seem accept…

I dont find this convincing, taxis are mad because it's competition, the restaurants are mad because its impersonation. The restaurants should be entitled to civil suits to reclaim damages while in the Uber/AirBnB situation its more about regulations that the government failed to enforce.

Re: People think they're calling restaurants directly but Grubhub is getting a fee

#197
post #187

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Except now grubhub et all basically controls their web presence through vastly superior SEO, and if they don't agree to grubhub's terms, they basically disappear off the internet.

Except it would cost grubhub money to run an uncooperative client, so why would they ?

It did cost them money to spoof an unknowing client, but they make money having a credit card form collecting fees before anyone else knows whats going on.

Re: People think they're calling restaurants directly but Grubhub is getting a fee

#199

Every article I read about restaurants just seems to reinforce that they are powered by their owners hopes and dreams rather than any financial or business literacy. It makes then ripe targets for exploitation.

I'm totally with you on this. People pay other money to prepare food?

It's not trivial either, restaurant food is 7 to 20x more expensive than home cooked (source- Efficiency Is Everything)

The only other business model for a restaurant is to sell drugs(aka alcohol and caffeine). Then your business model exploits customer addictions.

I think we've spent far too much money/resources/manpower on lazy food habits.

Re: People think they're calling restaurants directly but Grubhub is getting a fee

#200

> The redirect number can also appear higher in Google search results (including the Google panel for that business) than the restaurant’s own line. This seems like a pretty fundamental failure on Google's part. The whole value proposition of Google is that they'll find you the best answer for you search, not just 'an' answer that could be misinformation. This is the problem with the way their ranking algorithms tend…

IIRC, this was also an issue during the 2018 cryptocurrency rush -- fraudulent support phone #s for big exchanges / companies like Coinbase would show up higher in the rankings than the legitimate number. Frustratingly and amusingly, the fraudulent phone numbers were supposedly better-staffed and more responsive.

Because fraudulent people don't actually provide value, where coinbase needs to confirm identity.
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