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People think they're calling restaurants directly but Grubhub is getting a fee

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Re: People think they're calling restaurants directly but Grubhub is getting a fee

#31

It's disheartening that there's so much due diligence required just to conduct the most basic transactions right now. I have a narrow list of vetted restaurants, where I understand the costs and to the business, the delivery model, the safety (food handling and Covid precautions), and I only take out from these particular places. I tried a new place recently, only to find out I had been duped by Grub-hub, even though…

The due diligence is because the restaurants offer a terrible experience. Most still do not have an independent online ordering function. They want me to call. Most still haven't set up meaningful profiles on Yelp and other review sites. So I would need to root around to find contact information. That is in addition to needing to give my credit card over the phone, not knowing how long the order will take, and needin…

I don't understand why this isn't treated like domain name hijacking, though.

Suppose you want to go to McDonald's. I buy the McDonald's domain name. I put a credit card form on my site, and I "deliver" McDonald's to you. I charge a $40 surcharge for the privilege.

There is no way in hell that McDonald's would have to go begging at realmcdonald's.com because of my shenanigans. They'd have no patience for this bullshit. In real life they'd sicc a DMCA notice and a ton of lawyers on this and I'd lose my webhost and the sheriff would come visit me and who knows what else. They'd get McDonald's.com fast enough to make your head spin, and I'd be pushed out of that business.

Why is it different for restaurants?

Same problem: instead of me it's a company, and instead of McDonald's it's a small restaurant. But the principle is the same.

In domain name hijacking, it's presumed wrong because customers think they're reaching McDonald's when they're really calling me. In the GrubHub case it's exactly the same thing.

I don't understand why it's wrong when I do it, but it's not a problem GrubHub does. After all, McDonald's doesn't deliver, and I may own a very fine delivery business, but I'm still not allowed to coast off their name for my own business.

Re: People think they're calling restaurants directly but Grubhub is getting a fee

#33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The due diligence is because the restaurants offer a terrible experience. Most still do not have an independent online ordering function. They want me to call. Most still haven't set up meaningful profiles on Yelp and other review sites. So I would need to root around to find contact information. That is in addition to needing to give my credit card over the phone, not knowing how long the order will take, and needin…

I don't understand why this isn't treated like domain name hijacking, though. Suppose you want to go to McDonald's. I buy the McDonald's domain name. I put a credit card form on my site, and I "deliver" McDonald's to you. I charge a $40 surcharge for the privilege. There is no way in hell that McDonald's would have to go begging at realmcdonald's.com because of my shenanigans. They'd have no patience for this bullshi…

I mean you can absolutely do your first businesses model as long as you don't claim to actually be McDonald's your fine.

The issue here is they agreed to allow GrubHub to pretend to be them. You'd never get that deal with McDonald's since they'd just not agree to it since they know it's a horrible idea but tons of people running restaurants don't understand they are getting a raw deal.

Re: People think they're calling restaurants directly but Grubhub is getting a fee

#35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The lure of more business for local restaurants. An uptick in orders and free advertising could certainly help! The lure of a weekend job for drivers. I've done it and made out pretty well on my motorcycle for a few hours on the weekend. consumers love apps and they love being able to have visibility into the status of their orders. They want to shop online for food and have it appear without of phone call, or to dis…

> A logistics company elsewhere caught charging this much would be laughed out of the room but in a new and exciting field there's a lot of room for markup. I would argue that they are also the owner of many of the customers. DoorDash owns me as a customer simply because when I am hungry, I turn on the app and select from one of the offerings.

Grubhub’s CEO said on an earnings call that customers are “promiscuous” and not demonstrating loyalty to a single dining app, so while you have your anecdote, it doesn’t appear to apply across larger sample sizes.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-grubhub-results/grubhub-b...

Re: People think they're calling restaurants directly but Grubhub is getting a fee

#36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The due diligence is because the restaurants offer a terrible experience. Most still do not have an independent online ordering function. They want me to call. Most still haven't set up meaningful profiles on Yelp and other review sites. So I would need to root around to find contact information. That is in addition to needing to give my credit card over the phone, not knowing how long the order will take, and needin…

I don't understand why this isn't treated like domain name hijacking, though. Suppose you want to go to McDonald's. I buy the McDonald's domain name. I put a credit card form on my site, and I "deliver" McDonald's to you. I charge a $40 surcharge for the privilege. There is no way in hell that McDonald's would have to go begging at realmcdonald's.com because of my shenanigans. They'd have no patience for this bullshi…

[deleted]

Re: People think they're calling restaurants directly but Grubhub is getting a fee

#37
post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I tried a new place recently, only to find out I had been duped by Grub-hub So you found a new restaurant, the restaurant found a new customer, and grub-hub is cut out of the (future) picture. Didn't grubhub earn that commission in this case? I have no love (or hate) for grub-hub... but it seems like a business hired a salesperson on commission, knowing full well the parameters of the deal, and then gets upset when…

Grub-hub sometimes does this without the restaurant's knowledge or permission[1]. I believe in most other industries that's considered fraud or trademark violation? [1] https://www.theverge.com/2019/6/28/19154220/grubhub-seamless...

I wonder if restaurants could add creative licensing terms to the metadata of the images on the legit sites?

"...By reusing our image for marketing purposes without prior written consent, you agree to a $3 royalty fee per page view."

IANAL, so no idea if that could be held up in court, but would be fun to see someone try.

Re: People think they're calling restaurants directly but Grubhub is getting a fee

#38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The due diligence is because the restaurants offer a terrible experience. Most still do not have an independent online ordering function. They want me to call. Most still haven't set up meaningful profiles on Yelp and other review sites. So I would need to root around to find contact information. That is in addition to needing to give my credit card over the phone, not knowing how long the order will take, and needin…

I don't understand why this isn't treated like domain name hijacking, though. Suppose you want to go to McDonald's. I buy the McDonald's domain name. I put a credit card form on my site, and I "deliver" McDonald's to you. I charge a $40 surcharge for the privilege. There is no way in hell that McDonald's would have to go begging at realmcdonald's.com because of my shenanigans. They'd have no patience for this bullshi…

The Grubhubs and DoorDashes are not logistic services but also marketing services. Most companies sign a marketing agreement with them.

Re: People think they're calling restaurants directly but Grubhub is getting a fee

#39
post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I tried a new place recently, only to find out I had been duped by Grub-hub So you found a new restaurant, the restaurant found a new customer, and grub-hub is cut out of the (future) picture. Didn't grubhub earn that commission in this case? I have no love (or hate) for grub-hub... but it seems like a business hired a salesperson on commission, knowing full well the parameters of the deal, and then gets upset when…

Grub-hub sometimes does this without the restaurant's knowledge or permission[1]. I believe in most other industries that's considered fraud or trademark violation? [1] https://www.theverge.com/2019/6/28/19154220/grubhub-seamless...

That's also my understanding of it, that does sounds like a business model based on trademark violation / brand impersonation.

The only reason they get away with it is they target small restaurants which are unable to defend themselves. They would try to create a fake mcdonald.com, it would be taken down immediately.

Re: People think they're calling restaurants directly but Grubhub is getting a fee

#40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> A logistics company elsewhere caught charging this much would be laughed out of the room but in a new and exciting field there's a lot of room for markup. I would argue that they are also the owner of many of the customers. DoorDash owns me as a customer simply because when I am hungry, I turn on the app and select from one of the offerings.

Grubhub’s CEO said on an earnings call that customers are “promiscuous” and not demonstrating loyalty to a single dining app, so while you have your anecdote, it doesn’t appear to apply across larger sample sizes. https://www.reuters.com/article/us-grubhub-results/grubhub-b...

Sure, but are they also promiscuous about ordering from the restaurants themselves or just across apps?

I am also promiscuous across apps (DoorDash just because I got the DashPass for during the pandemic), but it has been years since I ordered anything other than pizza directly.

So the industry as a whole just owns the customers rather than the restaurant.

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