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People think they're calling restaurants directly but Grubhub is getting a fee

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Re: People think they're calling restaurants directly but Grubhub is getting a fee

#131

Post by heavyset_go »

julianeon wrote: post #31
MattGaiser wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The due diligence is because the restaurants offer a terrible experience. Most still do not have an independent online ordering function. They want me to call. Most still haven't set up meaningful profiles on Yelp and other review sites. So I would need to root around to find contact information. That is in addition to needing to give my credit card over the phone, not knowing how long the order will take, and needin…

I don't understand why this isn't treated like domain name hijacking, though. Suppose you want to go to McDonald's. I buy the McDonald's domain name. I put a credit card form on my site, and I "deliver" McDonald's to you. I charge a $40 surcharge for the privilege. There is no way in hell that McDonald's would have to go begging at realmcdonald's.com because of my shenanigans. They'd have no patience for this bullshi…

> I don't understand why it's wrong when I do it, but it's not a problem GrubHub does.

The same reason that you'd be arrested for running an illegal taxi, but when Uber does it, it's fine. And the same reason that you'd be arrested for running an illegal hotel, but when AirBnB does it, it's okay.

Uber and AiBnb spend a lot of money lobbying governments at every level, and on marketing to make what they do seem acceptable.

Re: People think they're calling restaurants directly but Grubhub is getting a fee

#132

Post by Wingman4l7 »

enumjorge wrote: post #71

> The redirect number can also appear higher in Google search results (including the Google panel for that business) than the restaurant’s own line. This seems like a pretty fundamental failure on Google's part. The whole value proposition of Google is that they'll find you the best answer for you search, not just 'an' answer that could be misinformation. This is the problem with the way their ranking algorithms tend…

IIRC, this was also an issue during the 2018 cryptocurrency rush -- fraudulent support phone #s for big exchanges / companies like Coinbase would show up higher in the rankings than the legitimate number. Frustratingly and amusingly, the fraudulent phone numbers were supposedly better-staffed and more responsive.

Re: People think they're calling restaurants directly but Grubhub is getting a fee

#133

Post by nogbit »

MattGaiser wrote: post #19
MaintenanceMode wrote: post #4

It's disheartening that there's so much due diligence required just to conduct the most basic transactions right now. I have a narrow list of vetted restaurants, where I understand the costs and to the business, the delivery model, the safety (food handling and Covid precautions), and I only take out from these particular places. I tried a new place recently, only to find out I had been duped by Grub-hub, even though…

The due diligence is because the restaurants offer a terrible experience. Most still do not have an independent online ordering function. They want me to call. Most still haven't set up meaningful profiles on Yelp and other review sites. So I would need to root around to find contact information. That is in addition to needing to give my credit card over the phone, not knowing how long the order will take, and needin…

Is it so hard to call?

You still use Yelp after all we know about them?

A simple search on just about any maps app gives a direct contact info, have you tried that?

Give the card over the phone is arguably more or as secure as online.

They read the order back to you don't they?

They are trying to compete, call them directly and cut out all these middle men.

Re: People think they're calling restaurants directly but Grubhub is getting a fee

#134

Post by Kalium »

variaga wrote: post #107
Kalium wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A lot of people, sooner or later, discover that the margins on morality are shockingly poor. They make their own choices from there.

And apparently the founders of grubhub made the choice to form a grossly immoral business that _also_ loses money hand over fist

I mean, they managed to IPO so the founders probably made out alright.

Re: People think they're calling restaurants directly but Grubhub is getting a fee

#135

Post by Melting_Harps »

TuringNYC wrote: post #130
KKKKkkkk1 wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How can GrubHub represent themselves as a restaurant seemingly without the restaurant's permission? Isn't this a trademark violation?

This is an established long-standing tactic at Hotels.com as well-- you call what you think is the hotel based on a web search. The person on the line pretends to work for the hotel. They will even play along and say "oh no discounts are available this week" or "no I dont see any AAA discounts / corporate discounts" The entire time -- they are trying to book you full price. The hotel loses, because they cannot give y…

> The entire time -- they are trying to book you full price. The hotel loses, because they cannot give you discounts -- they either get the sale or lose it alltogether.

How is that not considered fraud? You're falsifying your identity as an employee for services you cannot provide in order to collect a fee as a middle man.

But now that you mention it, during this absurd time I actually called the number of a Thai restaurant I frequented before by searching it on yelp only to get a dead dial tone. I always suspected they were just busy as they were still doing rather well all things considered, but the woman at the counter (a local baker in my town helping out her friends in the evenings) said she never got a single call when I showed up and ordered in person and talked shop of her new kitchen that got put on hold.

Re: People think they're calling restaurants directly but Grubhub is getting a fee

#136

Post by hckr_news »

Nextgrid wrote: post #73
caymanjim wrote: post #52

It's possible to do this without resorting to the sleazy practices of Grubhub. I used to work for Slice, which provides order-taking (but notably not delivery) for mom-and-pop pizza shops. They don't add people to the platform without their permission. They only charge $1/order. They help restaurants digitize their menus, keep prices up to date, and they take orders digitally and over the phone. They have a large and…

The "problem" is that it doesn't "scale" and there is not much opportunity for "growth" and "engagement", so VC scum will never do something legitimate like this and will instead attempt fraudulent practices like impersonating the restaurant's website and outranking them.

Doesn’t Ycombinator constantly tell startups to “do things that don’t scale”

Re: People think they're calling restaurants directly but Grubhub is getting a fee

#137

Post by Melting_Harps »

noelsusman wrote: post #106
MattGaiser wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The due diligence is because the restaurants offer a terrible experience. Most still do not have an independent online ordering function. They want me to call. Most still haven't set up meaningful profiles on Yelp and other review sites. So I would need to root around to find contact information. That is in addition to needing to give my credit card over the phone, not knowing how long the order will take, and needin…

I've had a pretty great experience calling restaurants to place orders. I talk to a human, tell them my order, they repeat it back to me, and tell me it will be X dollars and ready at Y o'clock. I show up at the specified time and the order is ready to go. A couple times I had to wait 5 minutes because they were inundated and couldn't keep up. No stupid app to download. No account to create. No bullshit fees. No mark…

> No stupid app to download. No account to create. No bullshit fees. No marketing emails. I just tell them what I want and then go get it. It's refreshing.

That's how it always was, I really don't get this disconnect between people wanting to always hide behind a keyboard or smart phone when it comes to food. It's always been the most social thing I do in my entire day, as it has been done since for thousands of years, and I just can't see why people feel either super embarrassed and outright aloof when it comes to ordering food.

I mean if you know you're going to try and use an expired coupon or not going to tip well, I guess that makes sense, but in my experience most people just seem to have some inexplicable aversion towards food ordering and pickup. Yet seem to want to chat with the checkout lady about mundane matters, whereas I just want to get out asap and cook with the stiff I'm trying to buy and keep things to a minimum.

Re: People think they're calling restaurants directly but Grubhub is getting a fee

#138

Post by BeetleB »

40four wrote: post #122
noelsusman wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've had a pretty great experience calling restaurants to place orders. I talk to a human, tell them my order, they repeat it back to me, and tell me it will be X dollars and ready at Y o'clock. I show up at the specified time and the order is ready to go. A couple times I had to wait 5 minutes because they were inundated and couldn't keep up. No stupid app to download. No account to create. No bullshit fees. No mark…

I agree 100% with you. I think the expectations of the parent comment are very misplaced. Restaurant owners are usually not tech people, nor can many of them afford to hire tech people. To expect all restaurants to pay exorbitant amounts of money setup/ maintain online ordering systems is not realistic. Also, I have never had a restaurant ask me for a card over the phone. Order times are a rough guess based on curren…

> To be fair, I have been surprised many times how difficult it can be to find an online menu for places I like in my area. Lots of places might not even have a website, but in these cases, I actually use GrubHub and the like to read the menus only.

Don't. Do. This.

Grubhub menus are often incomplete (and we all know the prices are wrong). I just checked a nearby restaurant I often frequent and the items I usually buy are not on the Grubhub menu.

If they don't have a web site and you want to see the menu:

Go to either the Google Maps listing or the Yelp listing.

If Yelp, don't click on the menu if they have one within Yelp.

Instead, click on the photos. You'll almost always find photos of the menu uploaded by Yelp users.

Re: People think they're calling restaurants directly but Grubhub is getting a fee

#139

Post by BeetleB »

cortesoft wrote: post #105
tomc1985 wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I beg to differ. None of the places I've placed orders with (and I've been doing it a lot what with quarantine) have ever asked for CC over-the-phone. Most just want my name, some a phone number. Ordering usually takes less time than it would to fiddle about with a bunch of dropdowns, even if it had my customer information already saved.

Are you paying with cash? Is this for a delivery or pick up? I am confused as to how they are getting the money from you.

Pick up. Probably less than 5% of restaurants do delivery. If you count chains as one restaurant, then probably less than 1% of restaurants do delivery.

I, um, take it you don't do this often :-)

Re: People think they're calling restaurants directly but Grubhub is getting a fee

#140

Post by pmiller2 »

BeetleB wrote: post #138
40four wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree 100% with you. I think the expectations of the parent comment are very misplaced. Restaurant owners are usually not tech people, nor can many of them afford to hire tech people. To expect all restaurants to pay exorbitant amounts of money setup/ maintain online ordering systems is not realistic. Also, I have never had a restaurant ask me for a card over the phone. Order times are a rough guess based on curren…

> To be fair, I have been surprised many times how difficult it can be to find an online menu for places I like in my area. Lots of places might not even have a website, but in these cases, I actually use GrubHub and the like to read the menus only. Don't. Do. This. Grubhub menus are often incomplete (and we all know the prices are wrong). I just checked a nearby restaurant I often frequent and the items I usually bu…

Just FYI, the menu photos on Yelp are not guaranteed to be up to date, either. The only real way to see what the restaurant's actual menu is without going there is if they have it up on their own website.
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