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Lawmakers begin bipartisan push to cut off police access to military-style gear

nytimes.com

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Re: Lawmakers begin bipartisan push to cut off police access to military-style gear

#211

Post by bdcravens »

pc86 wrote: post #198
mstade wrote: post #183

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Clearly you’ve never driven in the US of A. ;o) Facetious commentary aside – and I do apologize for the tongue in cheekness – as a European I’ve always been struck by just how many wrecks and other debris are littered by the side of the roads in the US. Mileage varies I’m sure (no pun intended) but I covered 6660 miles on a road trip through in the US last year and it seemed almost universal to me that you’d see at l…

This is going to be very dependent on location. I've commuted on various 20-40 mile stretches of highway for the past decade and it's rare to see debris for more than a day or two before someone cleans it up. And I've seen a car "engulfed in flames" exactly one time in my entire adult life.

I've seen cars engulfed in flames I'd say a dozen or more times (alas, the first time I drove into Houston) and it would be more, except I've only lived in large cities 15 out of my 43 years.

Re: Lawmakers begin bipartisan push to cut off police access to military-style gear

#212

Post by habosa »

Today I did some Googling and found this startling comparison:

NYPD annual Budget: 6 billion dollars Mexican military budget: 7 billion

It's no surprise that the police at these protests look like they're ready to take on a well-armed drug cartel. They are.

Re: Lawmakers begin bipartisan push to cut off police access to military-style gear

#213

Post by chrisseaton »

1123581321 wrote: post #201
chrisseaton wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's be great if the police in the US had a more consistent uniform. If I go from one town to another in the US the police could look completely different. How are you supposed to be able to tell a police officer from a private security guard there?

They generally do have consistent uniforms (dark, gray and tan solids with a badge and utility belt.) The vehicle wraps vary more.

Not sure if you're being sarcastic?

If not do a Google image search for 'american police officer' - almost every image has a different uniform colour, cut, insignia in it.

Dark blue, light blue, white, brown, black, grey, purple, yellow, green. It's every colour under the sun!

Two police officers:

https://static.trendscatchers.io/uploads/2019/01/bear34-uk.j...

https://writersforensicsblog.files.wordpress.com/2015/02/chi...

I think there's almost literally nothing consistent between these two uniforms (badge?)

> with a badge and utility belt

That's also what mall security guards wear in the US though.

Re: Lawmakers begin bipartisan push to cut off police access to military-style gear

#214

Post by tonystubblebine »

rconti wrote: post #14

A common response to the idea of "police reform" is that it will make it harder/more expensive/etc to hire police, which we all agree we need. As an armchair economist who believes that everything DOES happen at the margins, we can't completely ignore this, so I'm at least somewhat sympathetic to the argument. But what really kills the argument is looking at how our medical professionals have stepped up and responded…

Increasing the cost of a single cop isn't the same as increasing the cost of a police force.

It seems obvious to me that as we work toward decarceration and decriminalization there will be a need for fewer police officers.

Practically everyone agrees that racial profiling should go away. Well, that's less "work" and should lead to fewer staff. Pretty similar public sentiment toward drug possession.

Not quite cops, but related. If we got rid of cash bail we'd need smaller prisons and fewer corrections officers. People who are released without bail overwhelmingly return for their court dates. So the only reason they are in jail is because they couldn't afford bail--they haven't been convicted of a crime. And that bail is then used to coerce confessions out of people.

On a given night, about 470k people are in jail because they couldn't make bail. That's about 25% of incarcerated people.

Source: https://www.prisonpolicy.org/reports/pie2020.html

Re: Lawmakers begin bipartisan push to cut off police access to military-style gear

#215

Post by standardUser »

rconti wrote: post #14

A common response to the idea of "police reform" is that it will make it harder/more expensive/etc to hire police, which we all agree we need. As an armchair economist who believes that everything DOES happen at the margins, we can't completely ignore this, so I'm at least somewhat sympathetic to the argument. But what really kills the argument is looking at how our medical professionals have stepped up and responded…

I had a friend in college who dropped out and attended a police academy program. After finishing the program and going on a lot of ride-alongs with local police, he decided not to become a cop because the culture he encountered was so toxic it turned him off to the entire idea. He was a good guy, smart, not an angry bone in his body. Maybe if we make policing a desirable career instead on extension program for high school bullies, we could attract better people to the job.

Re: Lawmakers begin bipartisan push to cut off police access to military-style gear

#216

Post by habosa »

sandworm101 wrote: post #84
Shivetya wrote: post #28

The equipment issue isn't going to solve anything, this is just lip service to the real problem. Police Unions have effectively created a system by which officers are nearly immune from prosecution and even if successfully prosecuted their record cannot travel with them in many cases. Now one fix that removing some of the equipment will do will reduce the amount of psychological impact it has on those wielding it, as…

5) Change the uniforms. Dress for the job you want. If they all dress like storm troopers some of them will act like storm troopers. NY state patrol uniform: Grey with purple ties. https://northcountrynow.com/sites/default/files/images/Zone2... NYPD (new york city ) police: Black on black with black ties. https://media.timeout.com/images/103899055/image.jpg It seems meaningless, but having interacted with a few polic…

This is a good point. The cars are a signal too. My town upgraded from the usual crown vics to souped up Ford SUVs that look ready to plow down a house. It seems to have brought with it some extra police swagger and aggression.

Re: Lawmakers begin bipartisan push to cut off police access to military-style gear

#217

Post by grecy »

habosa wrote: post #212

Today I did some Googling and found this startling comparison: NYPD annual Budget: 6 billion dollars Mexican military budget: 7 billion It's no surprise that the police at these protests look like they're ready to take on a well-armed drug cartel. They are.

In the year 2015, in all of Germany, the Police only fired a total of 46 bullets [1], killing only 7 people in the entire country.

At 83 million, Germany's population is 25% that of the USA, so all things being equal the Police in the USA would only use 184 bullets per year, and there would only be 28 deaths as a result of police shootings.

In reality, The police in the USA shot shot and killed nearly 1,000 people in 2015 [2].

[1] https://www.reddit.com/r/dataisbeautiful/comments/52r4zr/sho...

[2] https://www.washingtonpost.com/sf/investigative/2015/12/26/a...

Re: Lawmakers begin bipartisan push to cut off police access to military-style gear

#218

Post by bananabreakfast »

stdbrouw wrote: post #166
rconti wrote: post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Pusher bumpers are just standard, and have been forever. A friend got accidentally rear-ended by a cop, no damage thanks to the pusher. The police need to push cars to the side of the road on, I'd venture, a daily basis.

> The police need to push cars to the side of the road on, I'd venture, a daily basis. In what kind of weird and twisted world do police officers need to push cars to the side on a daily basis?

This world.

There is a car accident every 3 seconds in America. Cops are almost always the first on the scene and clearing the highway of wrecked cars before a tow arrives is essential.

Re: Lawmakers begin bipartisan push to cut off police access to military-style gear

#219

Post by lawnchair_larry »

Shivetya wrote: post #28

The equipment issue isn't going to solve anything, this is just lip service to the real problem. Police Unions have effectively created a system by which officers are nearly immune from prosecution and even if successfully prosecuted their record cannot travel with them in many cases. Now one fix that removing some of the equipment will do will reduce the amount of psychological impact it has on those wielding it, as…

Unions have effectively created a system by which officers are nearly immune from prosecution and even if successfully prosecuted their record cannot travel with them in many cases.

I guess it’s time for us to acknowledge that unions are not always a net benefit.

Re: Lawmakers begin bipartisan push to cut off police access to military-style gear

#220

Post by jacobush »

1123581321 wrote: post #205
arminiusreturns wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A big part of this that I don't see addressed: huge numbers of LEO's are sent to Israel to train. I don't even have to say anything further. It speaks for itself.

Israelis excel in the defense industry and their mandatory military service means few people with physical and perceptual aptitude are untrained. I assume you are implying an Israeli cannot be a good police trainer because they occupy Palestine, but I disagree.

No, because they are notoriously violent.
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