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Police attacks against journalists across the U.S. since May 28

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Re: Police attacks against journalists across the U.S. since May 28

#381

Post by adjkant »

kortilla wrote: post #360
bradly wrote: post #317

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In a small suburb of San Diego the protest stopped traffic. Police forced the protesters off and then riots started and two banks were burnt down. Two weeks ago a San Diego police deputy was released from jail after serving only six months after sexually assaulting (why forced oral sex is not rape I’m not sure) 16 women that had called the police for help. He does not have to register as a sexual offender. Protesting…

Stopping traffic risks the lives of people in ambulances so it’s pretty hard to condone that. Make noise, block access to some businesses, etc, but don’t block streets and cause traffic jams that could kill people FFS.

Protests have been regularly shown to let emergency vehicles through, I saw videos of this yesterday.

Re: Police attacks against journalists across the U.S. since May 28

#382

Post by chillwaves »

lawnchair_larry wrote: post #326
staticassertion wrote: post #193

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The police seem to clearly be allowing looting on purpose. SoHo was looted two days in a row . Where were the NYPD? There are 10's of thousands of uniformed officers Maybe you can say the first day they somehow missed it, but two days in a row? Come on. I refuse to believe that they didn't see this coming - they brag about how they're "gathering intel" on terrorist groups, but they couldn't check twitter to see #soho…

I just love how everyone hates cops and talks about how every single one of them is worthless yet they expects them to save their store from being looted. You decided you were better off without me, fine, save your own store.

I love how certain types of people offer the false choice of unjust and unaccountable police or no police at all.

I guess it's too much to ask that police obey the law they are supposed to be enforcing.

This is why the country is in flames right now.

Re: Police attacks against journalists across the U.S. since May 28

#383

Post by staticassertion »

Auracle wrote: post #222
jascii wrote: post #183

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sorry, for the safety of myself, my fellow demonstrators, and my family I am not going to state the actual events I was at. Others have already shown examples, however here is an news article covering some incidents: https://www.newsweek.com/fbi-asks-evidence-individuals-incit... I have so far not seen any evidence of the opposite taking place, I would certainly appreciate some counter examples.

I certainly don’t think the police cars in NYC going through those pedestrians - the first example on the page - is a good example. People crowded around the vehicles and starting throwing things at them. While I would expect police to have more restraint/less fear than they did, that wasn’t the police starting violence. I would expect almost anyone to have the same reaction they did. There was another NYC incident t…

Two different police vans drove up to a barricade and there were virtually no people behind them. Where do you think they were going? Why do you think they drove into the barrier to begin with? Why could they not back up?

Re: Police attacks against journalists across the U.S. since May 28

#384

Post by Barrin92 »

rpiguy wrote: post #371
bosswipe wrote: post #91

I had been heartened by the right's recent upswing in fierce support for the first amendment, but unfortunately I've seen little of that support during the protests as freedom of assembly and freedom of the press have been attacked. For example Rand Paul has not tweeted in a week. Sadly, as always, these kind of principled arguments, on both sides, are a sham to advance whatever the partisan battle of the week is.

Because rioting isn’t free speech. All conservatives support peaceable assembly and protest. They also fiercely believe in property rights as inherently tied to the concept of liberty. It is right in the Declaration of Independence. No conservative worth his or her salt will defend theft, property destruction, etc.

rioting is indeed not free speech, but surely attacking the press, one of the fundamental institutions in any democracy, is a violation of free speech.

And not only have the people in question not spoken up in defense of the press, they've actually routinely declare them the enemy of the people.

Re: Police attacks against journalists across the U.S. since May 28

#385

Post by morsch »

CamperBob2 wrote: post #375
morsch wrote: post #367

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What are you hinting at? A second amendment thing? Because that really has nothing to do with the monopoly on use of violence. You can be violent without a gun. Who gets to be violent in a legal manner is an orthogonal issue. And how is it ironic? When has the second amendment ever done anything for victims of police brutality? How often has widespread gun ownership been used as an excuse for excessive police force?

The second amendment has everything to do with the question of whether the police (or any other state-sanctioned agency) is entitled to a monopoly on the use of force. But like I said, I don't understand any of this. Maybe others can offer some insight.

I disagree, for the reasons stated. But I'm not a constitutional expert, less so for a country that is not my own. That said, you haven't answered my questions.

Re: Police attacks against journalists across the U.S. since May 28

#386

Post by jascii »

monoideism wrote: post #286
stonogo wrote: post #219

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here you go. https://www.reddit.com/r/ThatsInsane/comments/gv2ogk/news_ch...

That looks very suspicious, but if this were really a widespread technique by the police, I'm assuming there would be more than a single video taken. I mean, we know the black bloc and similar groups engages in these tactics, they've been doing it since Seattle WTO 1999. I've seen it in person to protests I've been to (as a protester). It's very hard for me to believe that all of a sudden those people are no longer a…

"Agent Provocateurs" are an old and well documented technique with examples varying from history through the civil rights era to the current day protests.

Re: Police attacks against journalists across the U.S. since May 28

#387

Post by mcguire »

rpiguy wrote: post #371
bosswipe wrote: post #91

I had been heartened by the right's recent upswing in fierce support for the first amendment, but unfortunately I've seen little of that support during the protests as freedom of assembly and freedom of the press have been attacked. For example Rand Paul has not tweeted in a week. Sadly, as always, these kind of principled arguments, on both sides, are a sham to advance whatever the partisan battle of the week is.

Because rioting isn’t free speech. All conservatives support peaceable assembly and protest. They also fiercely believe in property rights as inherently tied to the concept of liberty. It is right in the Declaration of Independence. No conservative worth his or her salt will defend theft, property destruction, etc.

Anybody remember the Clinton administration, when the popular cry was "Charlton Heston is my president!" and "The purpose of the Right to Bear Arms isn't for hunting, it is so that politicians fear the people!"

Yeah, I don't either.

Yes, rioting isn't free speech. Unfortunately, nothing short of rioting seems to work---the people in question are poor and already at the bottom of the social pile, so their options seem limited.

Re: Police attacks against journalists across the U.S. since May 28

#388

Post by viklove »

elliekelly wrote: post #127
sixothree wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Third party oversight. This country was founded on checks and balances. There are no checks to their power as it stands now.

> Third party oversight. Aren't the journalists supposed to be the third party oversight? Showing and telling the rest of us what's happening so that when one side oversteps we as a society can take action to correct it?

No, the Judiciary serves as a check on the Executive, so the courts are supposed to be the ones reeling in the police. That's obviously not happening.

Re: Police attacks against journalists across the U.S. since May 28

#389

Post by chillwaves »

SkyMarshal wrote: post #308
jascii wrote: post #133

Disclaimer: I am a bleeding heart liberal and this may filter my observations. I have been to a few rallies/vigils/marches lately and all incidences of violence that I have witnessed either in person or through media has been instigated by the police. As far as I know,every documented case where a formerly peaceful crowd turns into chaos has been started with police shooting pepperspray, teargas, or whatever into the…

Were you able to observe whether the police instigated the looting too?

Last I heard, protesting is enshrined in the first amendment of the Bill of Rights and you cannot use the crimes of other people to crack down on all protesters.

Re: Police attacks against journalists across the U.S. since May 28

#390

Post by rpiguy »

SirYandi wrote: post #379
rpiguy wrote: post #377

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Women didn’t shoot cops in the back of the head, burn down city hall, steal and loot stores. These aren’t protests they are riots.

Protests and riots aren't mutually exclusive

Yes they are. Rioting is not protest. It is criminal activity. Your right to protest, assemble, and speak does not include setting buildings with children inside on fire, murdering pawn shop owners, killing federal officers.

I fully support everyone out there marching not committing crimes.

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