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Lawmakers begin bipartisan push to cut off police access to military-style gear

nytimes.com

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Re: Lawmakers begin bipartisan push to cut off police access to military-style gear

#181

Post by cloudwizard »

stdbrouw wrote: post #166
rconti wrote: post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Pusher bumpers are just standard, and have been forever. A friend got accidentally rear-ended by a cop, no damage thanks to the pusher. The police need to push cars to the side of the road on, I'd venture, a daily basis.

> The police need to push cars to the side of the road on, I'd venture, a daily basis. In what kind of weird and twisted world do police officers need to push cars to the side on a daily basis?

I had a tire blowout in the fast lane of 101. The CHP ran a break and the policeman pushed my car to the slow where there was room for me to change my tire.

Re: Lawmakers begin bipartisan push to cut off police access to military-style gear

#182

Post by tathougies »

tomohawk wrote: post #72

The Posse Comitatus act prohibits the military from operating within the US, except at the borders, and as provided by the Insurrection Act. The Insurrection Act requires a State governor or legislature to request military assistance during an insurrection. The act also allows the president to act without that, if the State is not acting in a way that is protecting people's rights. This is why Bush could not deploy t…

> And for good reason.

You consider the Posse Comitatus act as being passed for a good reason? Perhaps the effects are good, but the Act itself was mainly passed so that the white former slaveholding states of the south could enforce racially charged laws without the Union military preventing them.

Re: Lawmakers begin bipartisan push to cut off police access to military-style gear

#183

Post by mstade »

stdbrouw wrote: post #166
rconti wrote: post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Pusher bumpers are just standard, and have been forever. A friend got accidentally rear-ended by a cop, no damage thanks to the pusher. The police need to push cars to the side of the road on, I'd venture, a daily basis.

> The police need to push cars to the side of the road on, I'd venture, a daily basis. In what kind of weird and twisted world do police officers need to push cars to the side on a daily basis?

Clearly you’ve never driven in the US of A. ;o)

Facetious commentary aside – and I do apologize for the tongue in cheekness – as a European I’ve always been struck by just how many wrecks and other debris are littered by the side of the roads in the US. Mileage varies I’m sure (no pun intended) but I covered 6660 miles on a road trip through in the US last year and it seemed almost universal to me that you’d see at least one car wreck (often partially or fully burned out) and loads of other debris like blown tires etc.

I think I’ve even got video from when I was leaving Kennedy Space Center and just a few miles from the bridges there was a car by the side of the road engulfed in flames.

On my latest road trip someone explained to me that the remnants of blown tires are from 18-wheelers that just keep on truckin’ once that happens, basically ignoring it till the next stop or even later. Given how many trucks you see on the road I wouldn’t be surprised if that’s true.

Re: Lawmakers begin bipartisan push to cut off police access to military-style gear

#184

Post by Retric »

tharne wrote: post #150
nds43242 wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How do you engender an idea of a UK/Canada-type cop in a country where there are more guns than people? I assume cops here are trained to see all citizens as armed threats, which systematically produces cops who are always on edge and ready to kill. The whole thing feels like a deeper problem than just training cops to be nicer.

Not enough people acknowledge this. The U.S. is a heavily armed country. It is very easy to (legally) buy military grade weapons in most states. Knowing that you could potentially get your head blown off anytime you pull someone over is going to lead to a very different psychology than you might see in a country like South Korea or Germany where very few people, if any, are armed. You can't just say, "Oh look how nic…

The number of actual cops shot in the US is extremely low. Logging is five times as dangerous as police work and the most dangerous part of being a cop is the amount of driving they do.

Even miscellaneous agricultural work is more dangerous and they make 24k/year.

Re: Lawmakers begin bipartisan push to cut off police access to military-style gear

#185

Post by t0mas88 »

Animats wrote: post #159
sandworm101 wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

5) Change the uniforms. Dress for the job you want. If they all dress like storm troopers some of them will act like storm troopers. NY state patrol uniform: Grey with purple ties. https://northcountrynow.com/sites/default/files/images/Zone2... NYPD (new york city ) police: Black on black with black ties. https://media.timeout.com/images/103899055/image.jpg It seems meaningless, but having interacted with a few polic…

And those aren't even the NYPD's Hercules unit.[1] Steel helmets and an assault rifle. Hercules is purely for intimidation. They mostly stand around and look impressive. They're not SWAT; that's a different unit. [1] http://blogs.reuters.com/photo/files/2011/09/mdf489180.jpg

Wow that looks military...

Re: Lawmakers begin bipartisan push to cut off police access to military-style gear

#186

Post by mstade »

chrisseaton wrote: post #147
sandworm101 wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

5) Change the uniforms. Dress for the job you want. If they all dress like storm troopers some of them will act like storm troopers. NY state patrol uniform: Grey with purple ties. https://northcountrynow.com/sites/default/files/images/Zone2... NYPD (new york city ) police: Black on black with black ties. https://media.timeout.com/images/103899055/image.jpg It seems meaningless, but having interacted with a few polic…

It's be great if the police in the US had a more consistent uniform. If I go from one town to another in the US the police could look completely different. How are you supposed to be able to tell a police officer from a private security guard there?

I agree, and especially the lack of consistency in vehicle dressing is annoying as hell. I was driving down the high way and this so-and-so behind me was right up my tail, and I didn’t even realize it was a cop before they turned on the party lights to signal me to move out of the way.

Re: Lawmakers begin bipartisan push to cut off police access to military-style gear

#187

Post by tharne »

Retric wrote: post #184
tharne wrote: post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not enough people acknowledge this. The U.S. is a heavily armed country. It is very easy to (legally) buy military grade weapons in most states. Knowing that you could potentially get your head blown off anytime you pull someone over is going to lead to a very different psychology than you might see in a country like South Korea or Germany where very few people, if any, are armed. You can't just say, "Oh look how nic…

The number of actual cops shot in the US is extremely low. Logging is five times as dangerous as police work and the most dangerous part of being a cop is the amount of driving they do. Even miscellaneous agricultural work is more dangerous and they make 24k/year.

I'd say that any number over 0 is not Ok. That would be like saying only a very small percentage of the population gets killed by cops. Again, anything over 0 == Not Ok. And just because you can cherry pick a dangerous job that happens to be more dangerous than being a cop doesn't make being a cop any less dangerous.

Re: Lawmakers begin bipartisan push to cut off police access to military-style gear

#188

Post by cpwright »

stdbrouw wrote: post #166
rconti wrote: post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Pusher bumpers are just standard, and have been forever. A friend got accidentally rear-ended by a cop, no damage thanks to the pusher. The police need to push cars to the side of the road on, I'd venture, a daily basis.

> The police need to push cars to the side of the road on, I'd venture, a daily basis. In what kind of weird and twisted world do police officers need to push cars to the side on a daily basis?

When a car breaks down or gets into an accident, gently pushing it to the side lets traffic flow without causing damage to the motorist's car or police cruiser.

Re: Lawmakers begin bipartisan push to cut off police access to military-style gear

#189

Post by fenwick67 »

nds43242 wrote: post #99
jeffbee wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Changing the inventory will reduce the appeal of police work for psycho assholes who fantasize about shooting protesters. Special weapons and vehicles should be reserved for centralized, specialized police forces who are called out when needed, if ever. Most cops should be issued a radio and a bicycle, so you attract people who want to look like [1] instead of [2]. 1: https://files.kstatecollegian.com/2014/08/08.27.1…

How do you engender an idea of a UK/Canada-type cop in a country where there are more guns than people? I assume cops here are trained to see all citizens as armed threats, which systematically produces cops who are always on edge and ready to kill. The whole thing feels like a deeper problem than just training cops to be nicer.

You can be a cop on a bike and have a colorful shirt and still have a glock and a taser.

Re: Lawmakers begin bipartisan push to cut off police access to military-style gear

#190

Post by Retric »

tharne wrote: post #187
Retric wrote: post #184

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The number of actual cops shot in the US is extremely low. Logging is five times as dangerous as police work and the most dangerous part of being a cop is the amount of driving they do. Even miscellaneous agricultural work is more dangerous and they make 24k/year.

I'd say that any number over 0 is not Ok. That would be like saying only a very small percentage of the population gets killed by cops. Again, anything over 0 == Not Ok. And just because you can cherry pick a dangerous job that happens to be more dangerous than being a cop doesn't make being a cop any less dangerous.

If you want to save lives, then armed cops are killing far more people than cops are being killed every year. So, removing guns from a cops normal uniform would very much save lives.
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