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Lawmakers begin bipartisan push to cut off police access to military-style gear

nytimes.com

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Re: Lawmakers begin bipartisan push to cut off police access to military-style gear

#121

Post by perfmode »

in_cahoots wrote: post #51
AWildC182 wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's interesting trolling that side of the youtube algorithm. It's abundantly clear that we've shifted from cops just being a mix of individuals who want to help and a substantial number of not-so-ex-high-school-bullies to full on military LARPers. The DHS funding being pumped into the forces have resulted in police being better battle-equipped than the average country's military and this has become a recruiting tool…

Is there any evidence this is true? The vast majority of cops will never aim their weapons at another person or use military gear beyond training. Is the slim chance of getting to use a humvee once in your career really compelling?

right now, in the present moment, on might argue that a majority of police in america are presently participating in this cosplay.

Re: Lawmakers begin bipartisan push to cut off police access to military-style gear

#122

Post by coopsmgoops »

sandworm101 wrote: post #84
Shivetya wrote: post #28

The equipment issue isn't going to solve anything, this is just lip service to the real problem. Police Unions have effectively created a system by which officers are nearly immune from prosecution and even if successfully prosecuted their record cannot travel with them in many cases. Now one fix that removing some of the equipment will do will reduce the amount of psychological impact it has on those wielding it, as…

5) Change the uniforms. Dress for the job you want. If they all dress like storm troopers some of them will act like storm troopers. NY state patrol uniform: Grey with purple ties. https://northcountrynow.com/sites/default/files/images/Zone2... NYPD (new york city ) police: Black on black with black ties. https://media.timeout.com/images/103899055/image.jpg It seems meaningless, but having interacted with a few polic…

I agree from a public relations standpoint too. All the new cruisers in my city are black Chargers/Challengers with battering ram front bumpers and they look way too intense for the job.

I'm also scared irreparable damage had been done to the police brand such that way fewer "good" people will want to sign up.

Re: Lawmakers begin bipartisan push to cut off police access to military-style gear

#123

Post by scottlamb »

vsareto wrote: post #86
jeffbee wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[2] is the Alameda County Sheriff serving an eviction on a bunch of old women.

Post your source, because this seems to indicate it is SWAT: https://reason.com/2020/01/15/oakland-uses-swat-force-with-t... The other side is they didn't know it was only old women in the home.

Quoting your source: "Dressed in riot gear, deputies from the Alameda County Sheriff's Office arrived at the house on Magnolia Street around 5:30 a.m." That confirms what jeffbee said. (Except the "old" part. If 34 is old, I'm in trouble.)

Re: Lawmakers begin bipartisan push to cut off police access to military-style gear

#124

Post by ggreer »

dashundchen wrote: post #11
briandear wrote: post #2

I don’t think the police need MRAPs. That’s a bit over the top. However, it does seem they need some sort of up-armored police cars given how many of them have been destroyed in the rioting. SWAT maybe has some use for military equipment, but only for bona-fide SWAT situations (hostages/bombs/active shooter.) But rolling out MRAPs for general policing is a bad policy. It’s one step removed from deploying tanks and it…

Sure, maybe there is limited use in some of this equipment. But my small city police department recently got a grant for 450 high powered assault rifles and armored vests, on top of the hundreds they already had. There are only 700 officers including things like traffic enforcement. Of course the police union lobbied for more. They have armored trucks and undercover vehicles. They have mobile towers to survey. They h…

> But my small city police department recently got a grant for 450 high powered assault rifles and armored vests, on top of the hundreds they already had. There are only 700 officers including things like traffic enforcement.

I'm pretty sure you're talking about Buffalo, NY.[1] They purchased 115 semi-automatic rifles that use the same .40S&W ammunition as their pistols. That's the opposite of "high powered". And they're not fully automatic. They can in no way be construed as assault rifles.

The 450 vests they bought are resistant to rifle rounds. Their old vests could only stop pistol rounds.

I agree that many departments go overboard, but this doesn't seem like an instance of that.

1. https://buffalonews.com/2017/03/07/buffalo-police-to-get-new...

Re: Lawmakers begin bipartisan push to cut off police access to military-style gear

#125

Post by tsss »

nds43242 wrote: post #99
jeffbee wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Changing the inventory will reduce the appeal of police work for psycho assholes who fantasize about shooting protesters. Special weapons and vehicles should be reserved for centralized, specialized police forces who are called out when needed, if ever. Most cops should be issued a radio and a bicycle, so you attract people who want to look like [1] instead of [2]. 1: https://files.kstatecollegian.com/2014/08/08.27.1…

How do you engender an idea of a UK/Canada-type cop in a country where there are more guns than people? I assume cops here are trained to see all citizens as armed threats, which systematically produces cops who are always on edge and ready to kill. The whole thing feels like a deeper problem than just training cops to be nicer.

Being a cop is actually a very safe job. I'd bet that your chance of being shot as a cashier at subway is higher than as a cop.

Re: Lawmakers begin bipartisan push to cut off police access to military-style gear

#126

Post by aggie »

Shivetya wrote: post #28

The equipment issue isn't going to solve anything, this is just lip service to the real problem. Police Unions have effectively created a system by which officers are nearly immune from prosecution and even if successfully prosecuted their record cannot travel with them in many cases. Now one fix that removing some of the equipment will do will reduce the amount of psychological impact it has on those wielding it, as…

"X isn't going to solve anything." "X will help with..."

I'm seeing a lot of good, evidence-based reform ideas dismissed as not being enough to "solve" the problem. But reform isn't all or nothing! Where we can make marginal improvements, we should. This is a large, complex, and heavily-entrenched issue. There is no silver bullet. Attack it from every angle available.

Re: Lawmakers begin bipartisan push to cut off police access to military-style gear

#127

Post by AlexandrB »

vsareto wrote: post #96
jeffbee wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well I don't know who's going to be at the grocery store, so I better strap on my grenades. You can't be too careful.

Grocery stores are public places, homes are not. Homes can be located in gang territory. Police ambushes do happen. I'm not saying they get it right 100% of the time, but serving warrants and bike patrol have way different risks. It's also entirely possible the warrant was unjustifiably a high risk warrant. In that case, SWAT could serve the warrant, and you get this situation. But that's not SWAT's fault.

> But that's not SWAT's fault.

Obviously it's no one's fault. We should just accept things the way they are and change nothing.

Re: Lawmakers begin bipartisan push to cut off police access to military-style gear

#128

Post by mberning »

mulmen wrote: post #113
mberning wrote: post #38

I would like them to provide and require body cams for all officers at the federal level and require all deaths and injuries occurring in police custody to be reviewed by the FBI/justice dept.

Police body cams have significant privacy challenges. There are no easy answers there. Consolidation of power to the federal level is a very blunt tool. Our nation is not built on such centralization of power. In fact the foundation is the opposite. Yes, deaths and injuries should be reviewed but this should happen at as local a level as possible. There’s need for reform but more federal power is not the solution.

I am not seeing the privacy issue. In most cases the police are interacting with people out in the public rather than in their homes and businesses. In most jurisdictions it is already one party consent to record.

Re: Lawmakers begin bipartisan push to cut off police access to military-style gear

#129

Post by vsareto »

scottlamb wrote: post #123
vsareto wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Post your source, because this seems to indicate it is SWAT: https://reason.com/2020/01/15/oakland-uses-swat-force-with-t... The other side is they didn't know it was only old women in the home.

Quoting your source: "Dressed in riot gear, deputies from the Alameda County Sheriff's Office arrived at the house on Magnolia Street around 5:30 a.m." That confirms what jeffbee said. (Except the "old" part. If 34 is old, I'm in trouble.)

Sheriff deputies can be on SWAT teams

Re: Lawmakers begin bipartisan push to cut off police access to military-style gear

#130

Post by ashtonkem »

vsareto wrote: post #82
jeffbee wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Changing the inventory will reduce the appeal of police work for psycho assholes who fantasize about shooting protesters. Special weapons and vehicles should be reserved for centralized, specialized police forces who are called out when needed, if ever. Most cops should be issued a radio and a bicycle, so you attract people who want to look like [1] instead of [2]. 1: https://files.kstatecollegian.com/2014/08/08.27.1…

If you show up for riot duty wearing [1], you're likely to walk away with injuries. If this goes through, make sure to track police injuries during riots if you want to be forthcoming. Violent protesters and instigators will throw things no matter whether you're in [1] or [2]. Bike squads on regular duty almost always look like [1] anyway. [2] might be a SWAT picture.

If you show up for protest duty in [2] you’re more likely to turn it into a riot.
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