De-Escalation Keeps Protesters and Police Safer • Hacker News Board

Re: De-Escalation Keeps Protesters and Police Safer

#591

Post by bearjaws » Tue, Jun 02, 2020, 11:59 AM UTC

lobotryas wrote: post #550

nikofeyn wrote: post #488

Earlier quoted context omitted.

if that's the case, then why is that bad and the fact that the most wealthy, corporations, and our politicians get away with their excuses from looting people? their looting is stealing data, not paying their share of taxes, abusing power, etc., and just because they aren't physical acts doesn't excuse them. but it's because they are the status quo, and they define what's looting or not. i'm not in favor of stealing…

One is legal (whether you like it or not) the other is illegal. If you don’t like that, vote to have the law changed. No one gets to be a vigilante/looter without legal/social consequences.

I don't think anyone is looking for no consequences, they really don't care anymore.

For example, your idea of voting in the minds of the protestors is laughable. They believe (and I tend to agree) that money controls policy in this nation and the ultra-wealthy have control over policy, therefor their vote doesn't matter.

Re: De-Escalation Keeps Protesters and Police Safer

#592

Post by Kye » Tue, Jun 02, 2020, 11:59 AM UTC

xendo wrote: post #511

lxmorj wrote: post #454

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is flabbergasting to me that we expect self-policing from protestors, but not the literal fucking police.

Policing by police usually leads to escalation. I think that's the point of this submission.

Of and by, not just by. None of this would happen if they checked their own before they murdered someone.

Re: De-Escalation Keeps Protesters and Police Safer

#593

Post by meerita » Tue, Jun 02, 2020, 11:59 AM UTC

carb wrote: post #467

meerita wrote: post #463

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you saying it was police fault people went to loot/destroy evertyhing in every city?

Yes. If police departments properly charged their employees when they break the law, there would not have been protests, rioting, or looting. Trevor Noah's attempt at explaining this is very straightforward but adroit.

Buy, wait, the guilty cop is free? no charges?

Re: De-Escalation Keeps Protesters and Police Safer

#594

Post by kuzimoto » Tue, Jun 02, 2020, 11:59 AM UTC

huonpine wrote: post #462

kuzimoto wrote: post #354

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Preventing others from interfering should count, no? Sure, but that's not what you asked. I believe the other three will be charged and convicted. At least that what I hope will happen.

Floyd used a $20 note that the store owner thought was counterfeit, called the cops, the cops didn't even check to see that if it was a real $20 note before killing him. It was real...

> the cops didn't even check to see that if it was a real $20 note before killing him. It was real...

Do you have any sources for that? I can't seem to find any references for that. According to some reports on the incident, the police at one point went into the store not sure what they did there though.

Re: De-Escalation Keeps Protesters and Police Safer

#595

Post by meerita » Tue, Jun 02, 2020, 12:00 PM UTC

KuiN wrote: post #490

meerita wrote: post #463

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you saying it was police fault people went to loot/destroy evertyhing in every city?

This comment can surely not be in good faith. You cannot seriously be suggesting you believe that protesters went to "destroy evertyhing[sic] in every city"?

I didn't mention protesters, I'm talking about the huge amount of people destroying, looting, beating other people in most cities.

Re: De-Escalation Keeps Protesters and Police Safer

#596

Post by TeaDrunk » Tue, Jun 02, 2020, 12:01 PM UTC

kuzimoto wrote: post #301

komali2 wrote: post #262

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Only after a police station was burned down. Lord forbid nobody caught the murder on video. This happens all over America, all the time. Thread is full of links or a quick hop on google will serve you in this regard. What would have happened if it was citizens? All four would be in jail immediately , if they even get that far without being shot for "resisting arrest" first. At the very least they'd get a beating some…

> Only after a police station was burned down. I feel like that's more coincidence than anything > This happens all over America, all the time. Thread is full of links or a quick hop on google will serve you in this regard I bet there is tons of anecdotal data to support any claim. There needs to be aggregated data that shows it's happening in high enough rates to be a "systemic" issue. > Would you merely "lose your…

> There needs to be aggregated data that shows it's happening in high enough rates to be a "systemic" issue.

We have aggregated data. We in fact have been building the aggregated data over years. Black people are disproportionately killed by police.0,1.

0. https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/investigations/polic...

1. https://policeviolencereport.org/

Re: De-Escalation Keeps Protesters and Police Safer

#597

Post by [deleted] » Tue, Jun 02, 2020, 12:01 PM UTC

TeaDrunk wrote: post #583

solstice wrote: post #570

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it's normal, reasonable and beneficial. If I had a very strong grievance that lead me to protest, I'd be highly motivated to not let others detract from my message or tarnish it. Nut jobs and provocateurs make it harder for me to attain my goals and can in the worst delegitimise my cause entirely

But peaceful protesting hasn’t actually appeared to result in justice for black lives in the past. Black America have had peaceful protesting in Washington DC before it was violently dispersed (so trump could pose in front of a church). We’ve even had mildly disruptive protesting (BLM highway blocking, also violently dispersed). We’ve even had black people not protesting at all (cases of police shooting at people jus…

[deleted]

Re: De-Escalation Keeps Protesters and Police Safer

#598

Post by neutronicus » Tue, Jun 02, 2020, 12:02 PM UTC

lxmorj wrote: post #454

beloch wrote: post #78

We should expect police to us less use violence and improve their crowd management and deescalation skills. The increasing militarization of police is a trend that must be reversed. However, we should not neglect the other side of the equation either. This article is, in large part, about just that. The article points out that many protests in the U.S. went smoothly through the practice of police and protest organize…

It is flabbergasting to me that we expect self-policing from protestors, but not the literal fucking police.

Well, I think these particular protests are raising the following questions:

1. Should there be police at all?

2. If so, can an institution staffed by these particular people ever function correctly?

The more effectively the protesters self-police, the more powerful an argument they make that you could improve society by disbanding urban police departments and letting the protest organizers assume de facto responsibility for maintaining the social order.

Of course, the other end of the violence spectrum is an effective argument, as well.

Re: De-Escalation Keeps Protesters and Police Safer

#599

Post by yters » Tue, Jun 02, 2020, 12:03 PM UTC

stcredzero wrote: post #388

yters wrote: post #328

Earlier quoted context omitted.

cynical tinfoil hat, i think thats the end game get people used to lockdown with the pandemic, then escalate to martial law i predict these riots will only get worse, and will be met with military enforced lockdowns

cynical tinfoil hat, i think thats the end game It's been the clear pattern of Antifa and other far left groups. Sowing chaos and preventing discourse is what they've been doing more and more for several years now.

ironically, or maybe not, antifa tactics are those most likely to induce a truly facist regime, e.g. how hitler took control

Re: De-Escalation Keeps Protesters and Police Safer

#600

Post by meerita » Tue, Jun 02, 2020, 12:04 PM UTC

carb wrote: post #467

meerita wrote: post #463

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you saying it was police fault people went to loot/destroy evertyhing in every city?

Yes. If police departments properly charged their employees when they break the law, there would not have been protests, rioting, or looting. Trevor Noah's attempt at explaining this is very straightforward but adroit.

Another point: Persona A goes and kill my neighboor, Can I (or is it good to) go out and do whatever a I want? Like rioting, beating people and destroying other people property?