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De-Escalation Keeps Protesters and Police Safer

fivethirtyeight.com

531–540 of 799 posts

Re: De-Escalation Keeps Protesters and Police Safer

#531

Earlier quoted context omitted.

perhaps ask the US police if they could kill unarmed black males at more appropriate times maybe?

The officer responsible was arrested and charged with murder. The other officers on the scene were all fired. Can you explain to me what the protest is about?

The officer responsible was arrested, yes.

But in the meantime, we now see videos of cops following humvees through residential neighbourhoods and shooting at unarmed people on their own property.

As a result, people are more concerned about police brutality than they were a month ago, rather than less

Re: De-Escalation Keeps Protesters and Police Safer

#532
post #55

Unpopular opinion: The newfound delusion that peaceful protests have ever engendered any real change as opposed to their violent cousin is perhaps the nail in the coffin of freedom and democracy.

That's extremely reductive - easy counterexample, the P/IRA completely failed to unify Ireland but their political wing did make progress towards their aims (GFA)

Re: De-Escalation Keeps Protesters and Police Safer

#533

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well yeah, if all of the protestors are armed, the police realize they can't escalate the situation and get away with it.

So the question here is: Would the response have been the same if all the heavily armored folk were black? As a born and raised American, I'm inclined to think not. I could be wrong of course, but everything that I've seen and experienced growing up and living in the US has led me to believe otherwise. I want to think that more protestors being armed would make a difference, but ultimately I believe it will just lead…

"Would the response have been the same if all the heavily armored folk were black?"

There's precedent for this. In the 60s the black panthers open carried in California to protest, of course, police misconduct. Reagan signed in the Mulford Act [1], banning open carry in CA.

If BLM want stricter gun control laws (not sure if they do), all they need to do is arm themselves at protests.

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mulford_Act

Re: De-Escalation Keeps Protesters and Police Safer

#534

It takes just a few rotten apples on the side of the protestors to make it go violent. It also takes just a few rotten apples on the side of the police to make it go violent. Protesting is largely a modern witch hunt. It lets people blow off some steam, rather ineffectively in the modern protest case, because you don't get to burn anyone alive at the end of it. Enough people long for that witch hunt finale, and that'…

Protests are an opportunity for those in power to fix things before the protests escalate. They were fine with things as they are now it has escalated. Burning witches might not be enough this time.

How do you fix those things? What are the protesters demands? Are there any concrete demands other than "f* rich people" and "f* capitalism"?

Re: De-Escalation Keeps Protesters and Police Safer

#535

Why not make universal laws that apply to anyone that can be proven to injure another human being with economic deterrents? For example, if you hit a man in the face, cause bruising, lets say that costs $1,000 across the board. $1,000 for any hematoma, $5000 or any broken bone. $25,000 for a GSW, $100,000 for a life-threatening injury, etc. To take it further, if you discharge a weapon at another human being, the fin…

Because that would be either insane or pointless?

You think people who shoot at people are thinking about money?

Re: De-Escalation Keeps Protesters and Police Safer

#536

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think US police actually want a riot. They want to create violence. I think that's unlikely. Keeping the peace is an inherently challenging job that gets harder exactly when it is needed the most.

Maybe not all of them, but you only need a few people like the over-enthusiastic COD cosplayer cop [1] in management positions to kick things off. Considering the vast, vast amount of footage of excessive force from the police in the last few days, I think it's likely the police want a riot. If they don't then they're beyond incompetent since they keep causing riots regardless. [1] https://tuckbot.tv/#/watch/gtg2cb

You know, humans have a lot of built-in reactions that are very hard to resist in the face of certain stimuli. It's hard enough to get people to talk peaceably in an online forum where we aren't smelling pheromones, feeling an adrenaline rush in reaction to physical threats to our well being, etc. It's vastly harder to stay calm and behave "competently" in the face of that sort of thing.

My ex was career military. One day, I was seriously set off by something and he accidentally got up in my physical space and bumped into me and his military training apparently had prepared him for how to de-escalate in the face of imminent physical violence because I was quite ready to hit him over it. The end result was that I left the house to go cool off elsewhere.

So I've experienced first-hand physical de-escalation tactics and my ex was one of the calmest people I have ever known. I'm the only person he ever raised his voice at (when we were fighting). Most people were incapable of getting a rise out of him.

So I think I have a pretty fair idea of just what it takes to actually de-escalate physical violence when faced with imminent physical violence and most people have neither the temperament nor the training. He had been in the military quite a few years at that point.

I don't intend to argue this further. I've said what I wanted to say. I was surprised my initial comment got any upvotes at all instead of being just stomped into the ground, given the current climate out in the world.

Re: De-Escalation Keeps Protesters and Police Safer

#537

At some point society will realize that this “de-escalation” would be better served by social workers without guns.

I don’t know my brother showed me a very uncivil and awful video of a black man trying to defend his business by telling looters to go away and being beaten and at least knocked unconcious with a pool of blood around his head. There were many other videos I saw where people stood outside their businesses with guns and their businesses didn’t seem to get looted at least. (I know it’s all anecdotal, but at least it say…

Sorry, what’s the connection to replacing police de-escalating with social workers de-escalating? You’ve lost me.

Re: De-Escalation Keeps Protesters and Police Safer

#538
post #499

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We had a peaceful protest in Kansas City on Friday where some police joined in, listened to protestors, took a knee with the protestors, and the mayor joined the protest as well. It was peaceful and all over the news. The very next day we had several trucks unloading beds of bricks and large rocks throughout the Plaza (where protests were and would be again that night) throughout the day and people were snapping vide…

We had a peaceful protest in Cap Hill in Seattle, where the police knelt in solidarity earlier today. There was no violence, no looting, no broken glass, and everyone was being peaceful. After the photo op was done, the police started macing and tear-gassing the crowd. The news then ran this video [1], but with the first 20 seconds cut out, and blamed the protesters on initiating violence. [1] https://www.reddit.com/…

Were you actually there and see it in person, though, or did you hear it from someone else? Because if it's the latter, it smells like horseshit from a mile away. That's why in a conflict you need to hear _both_ versions of what actually happened and try to be impartial.

Re: De-Escalation Keeps Protesters and Police Safer

#539
Police violence and stupidity are a big problem. But why Americans make everything about race? See this white guy suffocated by police while crying out "I cant breathe": https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2019/08/01/police-laug...

Why no riots and street violence then?

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