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De-Escalation Keeps Protesters and Police Safer

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Re: De-Escalation Keeps Protesters and Police Safer

#471

Post by joshuamorton »

kuzimoto wrote: post #387
komali2 wrote: post #305

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> violent rioting All of the videos from the last few days is still being sorted, but from what I've seen the violence from police against protesters far outstrips that of protesters against random people or cops. I'm in fact only aware of several incidents, and all of which were easily justifiable - a man firing a bow at protesters, an idiot screaming the n-word at protesters, and a man charging at protesters with a…

> from what I've seen the violence from police against protesters far outstrips that of protesters against random people or cops. How? As far as I can tell no one was killed at the hands of the police (after protests started). Just in Chicago at least 17 people were killed during the protests.

> Just in Chicago at least 17 people were killed during the protests.

And how many by the protestors?

> As far as I can tell no one was killed at the hands of the police (after protests started)

https://www.npr.org/2020/06/01/867281529/louisville-police-c...

Note that shooting someone isn't the only form of violence possible. Escalating by firing rubber bullets or tear gassing or driving your car into peaceful protestors are all violence, and I've seen tens, maybe a hundred examples of that at this point.

Re: De-Escalation Keeps Protesters and Police Safer

#472

Post by humanrebar »

bluedino wrote: post #156
rectang wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have always suspected that US police are shunted into sub-optimal patterns because there are so many guns here that the odds a simple interaction will involve a firearm are much higher than they are in less-well-armed societies. Does anybody know if I'm right about that? That doesn't mean that they can't do more de-escalation or take other steps, but the high prevalence of guns does seem like it would be a contribu…

There have been almost no guns used against police during these protests.

But to rephrase, there was a LEO murdered in a drive-by shooting.

Re: De-Escalation Keeps Protesters and Police Safer

#473

Post by dchichkov »

rallison wrote: post #405
briandear wrote: post #258

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Was everyone wearing masks and practicing social distancing of at least 6 feet? Weren’t we told that the reopen protesters were putting people at risk by protesting from their cars? I don’t disagree with the reason for protest, but if a church can’t be open, even outdoors, and an extended family picnic is illegal in a public park, then I am not sure the rationale for allowing protests now. The first amendment isn’t c…

Nobody likes that these protests are likely to lead to increased transmission. It's a truly terrible choice. People are making that choice because these protests get to such a fundamental problem in our society that they are still worth it, despite the cost. And, as has been mentioned, mask usage is high, and these protests are outside. It doesn't eliminate the risk, but many, many people are still trying to minimize…

Work. Volunteer. Take care of your family. Vote. It's a bit of a bad timing for protests right now - easily exploited, will likely result in negative change.

Re: De-Escalation Keeps Protesters and Police Safer

#474

Post by zo1 »

bjourne wrote: post #138
beloch wrote: post #78

We should expect police to us less use violence and improve their crowd management and deescalation skills. The increasing militarization of police is a trend that must be reversed. However, we should not neglect the other side of the equation either. This article is, in large part, about just that. The article points out that many protests in the U.S. went smoothly through the practice of police and protest organize…

I've been on a few demos that turned violent. Among them the famous one when George Bush decided to pay a visit. In all cases , the organizers wanted to cooperate with the police. They knew who were in the "autonomous bloc" (troublemakers) and would have gladly helped the police zone in on them. In all cases the police didn't care and charged peaceful and violent demonstrators alike. I find it very odd that the polic…

We're not allowing governments to do the proper, necessary surveillance to control and prevent crimes in general, including ones at demonstrations/protests. Whenever these ideas start popping up, someone always finds some "privacy" concern that spoils a lot of tech-answers to crime and violence, including here on HN.

I find it very saddening as the victims of these crimes end up being victims that are ignored by "privacy" advocates and proponents, as if "privacy" is a bigger concern than violent crimes.

Re: De-Escalation Keeps Protesters and Police Safer

#475

Post by balls187 »

creato wrote: post #470
Polylactic_acid wrote: post #459

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It seems to me that almost every violent protest/riot started peaceful but then police make it violent. I have seen this so many times where police stay out of the way and everything goes smoothly. I think US police actually want a riot. They want to create violence.

Seems to you based on what? Reddit posts? More realistically, I think it is rarely this simple, on either side. I'm sure that usually there is a feedback loop of escalating responses.

> More realistically, I think it is rarely this simple, on either side. I'm sure that usually there is a feedback loop of escalating responses.

The premise of the article is Police showing escalating force, increases escalation of protestors.

While likely it's a feedback loop, the police are expected to keep the peace; so there exists a higher standard for their behavior.

Yet, an oft criticism is that LE agencies don't always get the de-escalation training they need.

Re: De-Escalation Keeps Protesters and Police Safer

#476

Post by lenkite »

komali2 wrote: post #415
lenkite wrote: post #352

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Relatively minor issue ? There are store owners defending their property who are being brutally beaten to near-death by "protestors". Residences containing children are being set on fire by "protestors". No, these are not 'minor' quibbles that should be skipped over.

Neither of the things you said happened.

Of-course these things happened. However, they will never reported by the "progressive" MSM. The HN community has blinkers on because the vast majority (not all) of people here are rich and un-affected by such matters.

Do not take my words for it - Please do your own research.

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/rochester-store-owners-attack... https://twitter.com/PatrolRpd/status/1267202275895803904 https://www.firehouse.com/operations-training/news/21140391/...

Re: De-Escalation Keeps Protesters and Police Safer

#477

Post by seunosewa »

bjourne wrote: post #339
briandear wrote: post #220

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I find it very odd that the police still cannot after all these years and with all development in surveillance tech distinguish between peaceful demonstrators and rioters. One could almost believe that they have no interest in making that distinction. I have been in the middle of protests when I worked for Reuters and the difference between peaceful and violent is very tiny. I was in the no-man’s land between the K…

> I have been in the middle of protests when I worked for Reuters and the difference between peaceful and violent is very tiny. Can you spot the difference between an African and European swallow? I bet you can't. But a professional bird watcher could tell them apart in a second. Same thing with protestors. When I was active I could easily tell the difference between someone potentially violent and someone peaceful.…

Could the organizers arrange for citizens arrests of the troublemakers by the peaceful majority? Like asking them to leave and having them restrained by the peaceful majority if they refuse?

Re: De-Escalation Keeps Protesters and Police Safer

#478

Post by tsimionescu »

foolinaround wrote: post #337
briandear wrote: post #258

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Was everyone wearing masks and practicing social distancing of at least 6 feet? Weren’t we told that the reopen protesters were putting people at risk by protesting from their cars? I don’t disagree with the reason for protest, but if a church can’t be open, even outdoors, and an extended family picnic is illegal in a public park, then I am not sure the rationale for allowing protests now. The first amendment isn’t c…

Insightful questions that we need to ask ourselves... In hindsight, it seems like all that social distancing and lockdown regulations were all a power grab, and we all fell for it. Downvoting this comment is a disservice because it stifles the conversation.

When you have a disease killing more people than malaria despite the massive lockdowns, there is no legitimate way to have a conversation.

And in case you think 'yeah but the lock downs don't work' look at Vietnam: they are the first country to have local transmission outside China, and they started anti-pandemic measures in December. Results? 95 million people, 329 caught the virus, 0 deaths as of today. Not 329 thousand. 329 people. That is what this could have looked like in most of the world, if the virus had been taken seriously and if our politicians cared about human life.

Re: De-Escalation Keeps Protesters and Police Safer

#479

Post by tsimionescu »

mr_spothawk wrote: post #360
foolinaround wrote: post #337

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Insightful questions that we need to ask ourselves... In hindsight, it seems like all that social distancing and lockdown regulations were all a power grab, and we all fell for it. Downvoting this comment is a disservice because it stifles the conversation.

i got so many friendships sullied by not falling for the power grab

Yes, failing to care about a disease killing hundreds of thousands of people, and failing to protect yourself and loved ones, does seem like a good reason to end a friendship.

Re: De-Escalation Keeps Protesters and Police Safer

#480

Post by jeffdavis »

pmiller2 wrote: post #449
kortilla wrote: post #362

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> but it does not alleviate us of our civic responsibility. The protests haven’t worked though for the last 20 years or so. IMO it’s more important to vote and promote change than to block traffic. People remember how you made them feel more easily than what you actually said. Preventing them from getting somewhere is a great way to just piss people off.

You've got it backwards. Voting and promoting change is what has not worked. Economic damage is likely to be the only thing that's going to persuade the elites to throw the working class a bone. You're witnessing the anger of the masses in its most pure form here.

Where is the MLK of 2020? I want to see someone who can go beyond their anger and have a plan and lead.
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