Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

De-Escalation Keeps Protesters and Police Safer

fivethirtyeight.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

351–360 of 799 posts

Re: De-Escalation Keeps Protesters and Police Safer

#351

Post by lsh123 »

lsh123 wrote: post #184
calvinmorrison wrote: post #161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That stat becomes more useful when you take into account black Americans are roughly 15% of the population.

I am not sure that per-capita is the right metric. I would prefer to look at it by police encounter or by crime or something like that. This is slightly old but has some interesting data on killings by race: https://www.usnews.com/news/articles/2016-09-29/race-and-hom... In these graphs you can see that total number of killings for white on white or black on black is roughly the same despite the 15% number you quoted…

Another interesting stats though a little old:

http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/leoka/2013/tables/table...

Re: De-Escalation Keeps Protesters and Police Safer

#352

Post by lenkite »

komali2 wrote: post #131
lsh123 wrote: post #121

Could we please stop calling “protesters” all the people looting jewelry stores, Target, Nike, etc? These are not protesters, these are looters. Police should use any means at their disposal to protect lives and property from looters and rioters.

Could we please not waste a second of thought on the relatively minor issue of broken store windows until we sort the issue of cops indiscriminately killing black people? If you care so much, how about petition your local police force to dump their tear gas at the range and stop firing on peaceful protesters, turning a lot of sitting people into a riot.

Relatively minor issue ? There are store owners defending their property who are being brutally beaten to near-death by "protestors". Residences containing children are being set on fire by "protestors".

No, these are not 'minor' quibbles that should be skipped over.

Re: De-Escalation Keeps Protesters and Police Safer

#353

Post by silverreads »

jeffbee wrote: post #268
silverreads wrote: post #248

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hey that's not fair, that's from 2015! What does he think now? Don't just judge a man forever by his past actions!

It's from 2003.

I just looked at the first date I saw on the youtube page, ha, sorry.

Re: De-Escalation Keeps Protesters and Police Safer

#354

Post by kuzimoto »

komali2 wrote: post #341
kuzimoto wrote: post #315

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It would have to be proven that you assisted in some way.

Preventing others from interfering should count, no? So our most recent case is 1 murderer and 3 accessories to, at the very least.

> Preventing others from interfering should count, no?

Sure, but that's not what you asked.

I believe the other three will be charged and convicted. At least that what I hope will happen.

Re: De-Escalation Keeps Protesters and Police Safer

#355

Post by malnourish »

alexashka wrote: post #233

It takes just a few rotten apples on the side of the protestors to make it go violent. It also takes just a few rotten apples on the side of the police to make it go violent. Protesting is largely a modern witch hunt. It lets people blow off some steam, rather ineffectively in the modern protest case, because you don't get to burn anyone alive at the end of it. Enough people long for that witch hunt finale, and that'…

Boston tea party

Haymarket riots

Black Friday suffragette riots

Martin Luther King Jr riots

Stonewall riots

Re: De-Escalation Keeps Protesters and Police Safer

#356

Post by exolymph »

pjc50 wrote: post #169
rectang wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have always suspected that US police are shunted into sub-optimal patterns because there are so many guns here that the odds a simple interaction will involve a firearm are much higher than they are in less-well-armed societies. Does anybody know if I'm right about that? That doesn't mean that they can't do more de-escalation or take other steps, but the high prevalence of guns does seem like it would be a contribu…

White protestors were allowed to occupy a state building with guns without a single bit of teargas.

Well yeah, if all of the protestors are armed, the police realize they can't escalate the situation and get away with it.

Re: De-Escalation Keeps Protesters and Police Safer

#357

Post by silverreads »

AnthonyMouse wrote: post #329
komali2 wrote: post #296

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But as the article says - why were there riots at all? Because the cops were firing on peaceful protesters! Evidence abounds. They committed police brutality, at the protests against police brutality. It genuinely boggles the mind.

The premise "many assholes are cops" doesn't need a lot of new evidence. There is more than enough existing evidence. But what do you honestly expect riots to lead to? Concessions? Or loss of the moral high ground and even more riot gear and tear gas and escalation? It's just handing the cops a free pass to justify arresting you. And not just arresting you, but charging you with something that could actually stick. I…

The bail funds have tens of millions now.

Re: De-Escalation Keeps Protesters and Police Safer

#358

Post by mr_spothawk »

idealboy wrote: post #203
bjourne wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've been on a few demos that turned violent. Among them the famous one when George Bush decided to pay a visit. In all cases , the organizers wanted to cooperate with the police. They knew who were in the "autonomous bloc" (troublemakers) and would have gladly helped the police zone in on them. In all cases the police didn't care and charged peaceful and violent demonstrators alike. I find it very odd that the polic…

Insightful reply. I marched yesterday and police fired rubber bullets into a peaceful crowd because we were blocking a non-essential intersection. On a Sunday. We refused to leave and fortunately they left and let us have a peaceful march. There doesn’t seem to be an interest in separating out the extreme minority that protest violently. There had been zero violence or destruction that day. A very well-behaved crowd…

If you can do so without doxxing yourself, I'd appreciate to have a city to associate with these types of stories.

Thanks.

Re: De-Escalation Keeps Protesters and Police Safer

#359

Post by yters »

komali2 wrote: post #338
yters wrote: post #322

Earlier quoted context omitted.

would you prefer a country with no rule of law? there are plenty of those around to check out

It's getting off topic, but it's worth pointing out that all the examples you're about to drum up may not have rule of law, but they certainly have "law," in that they have someone holding a monopoly on violence and the willingness to use it to meet their ends. I think that's an important distinction to make between such a place, and a place of anarchy or a commune, which aren't necessarily places that don't have "ru…

what exactly is your counter proposal? the united communes of america?

monopoly on violence exists because people are evil and violent

without a lawful monopoly on violence you get much of what you see in the rest of the world

anarchist want to destroy the current system flaws and all for a vacuum of justice

Re: De-Escalation Keeps Protesters and Police Safer

#360

Post by mr_spothawk »

foolinaround wrote: post #337
briandear wrote: post #258

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Was everyone wearing masks and practicing social distancing of at least 6 feet? Weren’t we told that the reopen protesters were putting people at risk by protesting from their cars? I don’t disagree with the reason for protest, but if a church can’t be open, even outdoors, and an extended family picnic is illegal in a public park, then I am not sure the rationale for allowing protests now. The first amendment isn’t c…

Insightful questions that we need to ask ourselves... In hindsight, it seems like all that social distancing and lockdown regulations were all a power grab, and we all fell for it. Downvoting this comment is a disservice because it stifles the conversation.

i got so many friendships sullied by not falling for the power grab
Post reply on HN