Could we please stop calling “protesters” all the people looting jewelry stores, Target, Nike, etc? These are not protesters, these are looters. Police should use any means at their disposal to protect lives and property from looters and rioters.
De-Escalation Keeps Protesters and Police Safer
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Re: De-Escalation Keeps Protesters and Police Safer
#122Folks - don't be obtuse. Police commanders know exactly what will happen when they escalate with tear gas and rubber bullets. Pro-police forces WANT mayhem. It makes people watching on TV afraid of the protests, and it changes the subject away from the widespread peaceful opposition to racist police violence.
Police are not the only ones who have the incentive to escalate. There are clearly people (likely political anarchists) who mingle with the crowd with the specific intent of escalating and causing mayhem.
Re: De-Escalation Keeps Protesters and Police Safer
#123Earlier quoted context omitted.
The police could stop the protests instantly by changing how they deal with racist officers and officers who kill people. They would rather escalate the situation than make these changes.
Being a police officer is a difficult, thankless, dangerous job, yet critical for a functional society. You don't get the same resources, respect, or pension of the military. If you are let go/fired, you have little chance of finding something comparable close by. It's not healthy for the psyche to be put into harm's way for an entire career span. There is probably a lot of untreated PTSD going on. It's not surprisin…
I guess this is just another one of those problems that almost every other western democracy has figured out that is simply impossible to fix in the US.
Re: De-Escalation Keeps Protesters and Police Safer
#124We should expect police to us less use violence and improve their crowd management and deescalation skills. The increasing militarization of police is a trend that must be reversed. However, we should not neglect the other side of the equation either. This article is, in large part, about just that. The article points out that many protests in the U.S. went smoothly through the practice of police and protest organize…
When the organization is decentralized, then the police will need to meet protesters where they are -- communicating with many people in parallel, using the same media.
Re: De-Escalation Keeps Protesters and Police Safer
#125We should expect police to us less use violence and improve their crowd management and deescalation skills. The increasing militarization of police is a trend that must be reversed. However, we should not neglect the other side of the equation either. This article is, in large part, about just that. The article points out that many protests in the U.S. went smoothly through the practice of police and protest organize…
I disagree that any responsibility should fall to the protesters.
The right to protest is baked into the first legal document the country as a political entity wrote. For the last 250 years politicians and cops have had the knowledge that Americans care a great deal about their right to stand in front of a statehouse and shout to their heart's content. They should create their own policies to deal with that fact. If that means ensuring no roads go near the statehouses, that there's ample space around popular protest spots, hell that there's guaranteed public restrooms in those areas, so be it. It also means that cops should have 250 years of collective knowledge in how to deescalate... But instead they've always gone the violent route (remember the 60s, when young black people were being shredded by police dogs?)
Now that being said, black lives matter in particular suffers from (in my opinion) a lack of leadership and organization. Over the weekend I wanted to attend protests. I have 100 surplus masks and shitloads of water bottles I wanted to give out. But after a straight hour of searching on every social media platform I could conceive of (as well as Google and just asking on Twitter) I found nothing but out of date websites, with articles from the beginning of the black lives matter movement.
If I want to donate money, I can choose between several different variations of the name "black lives matter," with no way to verify that these are representative organizations, or where the money goes.
During the protest (I just turned up at city hall and hoped for the best - it happened to work out), I didn't see any sort of leadership. Sure some local community leaders turned up, but nobody that represented any sort of modern iteration of a black rights movement.
Far be it from me to tell people how to best accomplish social goals - in my opinion raw, unfettered, and disorganized rage is a perfectly valid outlet for the people against the crimes of the American police system. I just feel like organization could only help.
Re: De-Escalation Keeps Protesters and Police Safer
#126Here is what absolutely boggles my mind: this information is so well know the USA Department Of The Army Field Manual on Counterinsurgency contains: > Security force abuses and the social upheaval caused by collateral damage from combat can be major escalating factors for insurgencies. https://www.hsdl.org/?view&did=468442
Unfortunately, the theory does not translate into practice or hiring. The military and militarized US police force seem to actively recruit agents who fundamentally misunderstand principles of de-escalation. Whether that be riot police antagonizing civilians or armed forces provoking people abroad.
The standards for these positions must be higher, especially domestically (police).
Re: De-Escalation Keeps Protesters and Police Safer
#127Earlier quoted context omitted.
> I don’t think that typical “pro-police forces” want to own the narrative of their cause being racist and violent I think they do. Many cops seem to be very racist and very violent. It doesn't seem like they care who knows it. Even when they do care, they might not turn on body-cams which should be a fireable offense and now it finally is in at least one case in Kentucky.
Many cops seem to be very racist and very violent Citation needed. I think most cops are just normal people trying to earn a living.
You say “most” which implies that you agree that some police are racist and violent “bad apples.” Why, then, do the “good cops” not speak out against the bad cops? Surely they could use their overwhelming numbers to get rid of the racist and violent bad apples?
Re: De-Escalation Keeps Protesters and Police Safer
#128Could we please stop calling “protesters” all the people looting jewelry stores, Target, Nike, etc? These are not protesters, these are looters. Police should use any means at their disposal to protect lives and property from looters and rioters.
There are a ton of heavy, non-looting protests going on as well.
Re: De-Escalation Keeps Protesters and Police Safer
#129At some point society will realize that this “de-escalation” would be better served by social workers without guns.
I saw a suggestion somewhere else that at least some subset of police responsibilities (e.g., general dealings with homeless people as one example) should be shifted to social workers. Makes sense to me.
Re: De-Escalation Keeps Protesters and Police Safer
#130Earlier quoted context omitted.
While there's a kernel of validity to what you're saying, cops in every state and every nation have to deal with a violent and hateful environment. The variation in outcomes suggests something else is at play .
Variation of outcome in other countries can be easily explained by low availability of weapons (that the case of most places): policemen are less susceptible to make use of their weapons when people they arrest as low probability of holding one.
Also, the general trend of militarizing US police forces is a systemic act against de-escalation.