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Caught on camera, police explode in rage and violence across the US

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Re: Caught on camera, police explode in rage and violence across the US

#111

Post by sfj »

verdverm wrote: post #12

Are there videos where protesters are beyond acceptable behavior? Rioters? I doubt this is a one way street by any measure. https://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/nyc-crime/cops-shot-bro... There was some pretty awful things happening on the live streams last night. I'm surprised by how many people streamed themselves committing crimes. Are they ignorant or just dumb? The police just started taking pictures of everyone

This channel is pretty good: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCVKDKWKR498Ut2m8H5oUEcA

Re: Caught on camera, police explode in rage and violence across the US

#112

Post by bradlys »

ponsin wrote: post #106
hedora wrote: post #65

This abuse of power is the direct result of the militarization of our police force. I say we take away their guns. If a suspect is brandishing a firearm, they can call in a separate unit allowed to carry weapons. Also, no more riot gear. The police can’t be trusted with it. Let the national guard have it, but train them for emergency response, not hunting down crooks.

If you can't trust the police with guns or riot gear then what is the point of them. If all they are reduced to are official naggers then they will end up having to call the actual police (the people who are allowed to have guns and riot gear) and the actual police will end up doing what the current police do. A better solution would be to provide better training and enforcement of police behavior.

You can't trust most people with a gun. That's the problem. Guns also bring tension to most situations. How often do you visit people with a pistol attached to your hip? Do they all go, "Oh, yeah, feel even safer now that you're here." Probably not - they're worried you're going to do something stupid and shoot them.

No one I know feels safer with armed police around and tensions frequently escalate with them around. We all go, "this man has a gun and could kill us - he will do it too because he knows he will get away clean and free."

Training isn't sufficient. If there are real consequences for police and it shows that they face the same consequences the rest of us do for many years - maybe then. But that day will not be for 10+ years. For now, it's much easier to say and act on taking away their weapons that are meant to kill people.

Re: Caught on camera, police explode in rage and violence across the US

#113

Post by ponsin »

bradlys wrote: post #112
ponsin wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you can't trust the police with guns or riot gear then what is the point of them. If all they are reduced to are official naggers then they will end up having to call the actual police (the people who are allowed to have guns and riot gear) and the actual police will end up doing what the current police do. A better solution would be to provide better training and enforcement of police behavior.

You can't trust most people with a gun. That's the problem. Guns also bring tension to most situations. How often do you visit people with a pistol attached to your hip? Do they all go, "Oh, yeah, feel even safer now that you're here." Probably not - they're worried you're going to do something stupid and shoot them. No one I know feels safer with armed police around and tensions frequently escalate with them around.…

In fact I do feel safer when the security guard in front of my kid's school is armed. That security guard has been trained and will suffer big consequences if he uses the gun improperly.

I guess that if you feel unsafe around armed security guards I can't argue with your feelings

Re: Caught on camera, police explode in rage and violence across the US

#114

Post by corny »

bobbylarrybobby wrote: post #27
_xerces_ wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How did this come about, is it the consequence of an armed society, or something else unique to Americans?

Militarization of the police following 9/11.

Or in 1980, Norco California, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Norco_shootout#Legacy The police were outgunned by a group of bank robbers.

Re: Caught on camera, police explode in rage and violence across the US

#115

Post by DrScump »

gamblor956 wrote: post #103
terakilobyte wrote: post #17

As a veteran this hits me particularly hard. This kind of force goes beyond most uses of force I personally used in Afghanistan and Iraq, actual fighting being the exception. In fact, I’m pretty sure I’d be brought up on charges if we treated nonviolent people the way these videos portray.

The Geneva Convention permits the use of tear gas for non military crowd control purposes. It's use is simply prohibited for military purposes. https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2014/aug/26/facebook-p...

You provide a link that directly contradicts your claim.

First of all, the Geneva Conventions (plural) are about treatment of prisoners of war, not agents or munitions used.

Your given link refers to the Chemical Weapons convention, but its scope is specific to wartime use between combatants.

The Hague convention has munitions provisions, but the USA is not a signatory.

Re: Caught on camera, police explode in rage and violence across the US

#116

Post by pinkfoot »

ponsin wrote: post #106
hedora wrote: post #65

This abuse of power is the direct result of the militarization of our police force. I say we take away their guns. If a suspect is brandishing a firearm, they can call in a separate unit allowed to carry weapons. Also, no more riot gear. The police can’t be trusted with it. Let the national guard have it, but train them for emergency response, not hunting down crooks.

If you can't trust the police with guns or riot gear then what is the point of them. If all they are reduced to are official naggers then they will end up having to call the actual police (the people who are allowed to have guns and riot gear) and the actual police will end up doing what the current police do. A better solution would be to provide better training and enforcement of police behavior.

You have just described the British and Japanese police. They police just fine from the crime rates.

Re: Caught on camera, police explode in rage and violence across the US

#117

Post by gremlinsinc »

ponsin wrote: post #113
bradlys wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can't trust most people with a gun. That's the problem. Guns also bring tension to most situations. How often do you visit people with a pistol attached to your hip? Do they all go, "Oh, yeah, feel even safer now that you're here." Probably not - they're worried you're going to do something stupid and shoot them. No one I know feels safer with armed police around and tensions frequently escalate with them around.…

In fact I do feel safer when the security guard in front of my kid's school is armed. That security guard has been trained and will suffer big consequences if he uses the gun improperly. I guess that if you feel unsafe around armed security guards I can't argue with your feelings

What if he's a bad shot, tries to aim at and hit the perp doing a shooting and ends up killing more people than the actual shooter?

Re: Caught on camera, police explode in rage and violence across the US

#118

Post by ponsin »

gremlinsinc wrote: post #117
ponsin wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In fact I do feel safer when the security guard in front of my kid's school is armed. That security guard has been trained and will suffer big consequences if he uses the gun improperly. I guess that if you feel unsafe around armed security guards I can't argue with your feelings

What if he's a bad shot, tries to aim at and hit the perp doing a shooting and ends up killing more people than the actual shooter?

Then he is investigated and the court decides if he is liable for manslaughter, murder or nothing. Similar to a soldier who killed people from their country, nuclear engineers who caused a meltdown, or bus drivers who got into a deadly accident.

Re: Caught on camera, police explode in rage and violence across the US

#119

Post by loco5niner »

komali2 wrote: post #69
koheripbal wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> ...if we treated nonviolent people the way these videos portray. A lot of the videos portray violent rioters/looters. A lot of the ones of the police are ambiguous because they don't show what behavior warranted the police reaction. I've also seen a lot of videos of peaceful protests with police walking/talking/marching with the protesters. We do justice a disservice when we lump everyone and every precinct togethe…

> A lot of the videos portray violent rioters/looters. I've yet to see an instance of this that wasn't precipitated by cops showing up in ironman armor to a peaceful protest and firing on people with all sorts of military-police toys. The violent instigators are the cops, across America. Even Target came out and said "whatever, our shit's insured, this problem with the cops needs to be solved."

Here's just one example: https://www.whec.com/rochester-new-york-news/rpd-asking-for-...

Animals.

Re: Caught on camera, police explode in rage and violence across the US

#120

Post by komali2 »

loco5niner wrote: post #119
komali2 wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> A lot of the videos portray violent rioters/looters. I've yet to see an instance of this that wasn't precipitated by cops showing up in ironman armor to a peaceful protest and firing on people with all sorts of military-police toys. The violent instigators are the cops, across America. Even Target came out and said "whatever, our shit's insured, this problem with the cops needs to be solved."

Here's just one example: https://www.whec.com/rochester-new-york-news/rpd-asking-for-... Animals.

Animals? Lemme guess, thin blue line, thugs, etc?

How about credit where credit is due - systemic police racism, and when that was protested, insane amounts of police brutality.

All people had to do was not be racist.

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