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Autism severity can change substantially during early childhood, study suggests

health.ucdavis.edu

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Re: Autism severity can change substantially during early childhood, study suggests

#151

Post by kstenerud »

glitchc wrote: post #128
kstenerud wrote: post #3

> The study also found that IQ had a significant relationship with change in symptom severity. Children with higher IQs were more likely to show a reduction in ASD symptoms. This is important information. People of higher intelligence would be more likely to learn things, such as how to mask effectively. I learned to mask so well that most people are shocked to learn that I'm autistic. It takes about 6 months of cons…

Am sorry to hear that they dislike you. At the risk of sounding extremely insensitive, can you share more? I ask because I'm mildly Asperger's myself.

I'm not really sure what else there is to share. It generally goes like this:

- I meet someone, or start a new job, or some such thing.

- People are friendly and everything seems fine for about 6 months to a year.

After that, things get weird quickly, like they throw a switch or something. Either one person starts saying rude things to me and the rest either sit back or join in, or a group of soon-to-be-ex-friends gang up on me suddenly (happened a lot in school), and then very quickly I'm ejected from the group. This happens both socially and professionally. I've also lost jobs this way, where I'd be fired with them refusing to give a reason, or pushed out via some technicality so that they can just have me gone.

My close friends and family tell me that I'm not being mean or condescending or rude or an asshole (I've had many observe me just to be sure), so there's something else going on. And asking the people involved hasn't worked because they won't tell me.

Re: Autism severity can change substantially during early childhood, study suggests

#152

Post by jaggederest »

onemoresoop wrote: post #144
jaggederest wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it's very interesting. I, like I suppose many people in this thread, am virtually always consciously masking in interactions with people. I'm also happy to explain this to folks who are interested, and I haven't ever been called out on it, so you could say that I'm "perfect" in that regard. I doubt whether I adhere perfectly to "normal" behavior, but people don't ask about it, at least. I think it's just a ma…

> The biggest thing I've learned is that I don't really like myself when I'm in full-facsimile mode, and so I consciously try to lower the facade whenever possible, but it's difficult after a lifetime of training by social sanctions Care to elaborate on this? What is the facsimile mode? My intuition tells me it’s the mirroring of the social interaction. If that’s what you mean I might have similar feelings towards it…

I just mean being fully in the facade of making all the expressions, gestures, and small talk stuff. Basically acting "normal" as much as I can. It's a lot of work, and it feels very fake. It feels disrespectful of the people around me, if I don't "mean it" when I say "Hey how's it going" and talk about the weather and sports and smile and nod.

Re: Autism severity can change substantially during early childhood, study suggests

#154

Post by stretchwithme »

kstenerud wrote: post #3

> The study also found that IQ had a significant relationship with change in symptom severity. Children with higher IQs were more likely to show a reduction in ASD symptoms. This is important information. People of higher intelligence would be more likely to learn things, such as how to mask effectively. I learned to mask so well that most people are shocked to learn that I'm autistic. It takes about 6 months of cons…

I think that's also true of schizophrenia. Like the main character in A Beautiful Mind, John Nash, my brother was able to discern what was hallucination and what wasn't. The less intelligent a person is, the more difficult that must be.

Re: Autism severity can change substantially during early childhood, study suggests

#155

Post by watwut »

_y5hn wrote: post #97
watwut wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would not expect it to be authenticity and complicated philosophy or self. It may simply be, that communicating with autistic takes much more effort from neurotypical people, is more frustrating. Eventually they stop trying and putting that effort on. Just as communicating with other is tiring for autistic, except neurotypicals have plenty of neurotypicals around to communicate with. I dont really want to guess, kn…

It can also be a superpower, to raise issues across boundaries that most people give up and submit to silently. If you're wrong, the backlash prevents much damage and everyone learns something "new". In many cases, the boundaries are self-sabotage and immaturity, ie. org silos.

It is superpower when you know where and when to use it for benefit.

That is pretty much opposite of autism, where the person is using it randomly and often to personal loss.

> If you're wrong, the backlash prevents much damage and everyone learns something "new".

Backslash gets autistic bullied in retaliation. Often by people who perceive autistic to be bully and feel righteous in "self defense".

> In many cases, the boundaries are self-sabotage and immaturity, ie. org silos.

I meant personal boundaries. The set of limits healthy people impose on themselves and the world around them. They define responsibilities, what’s acceptable treatment and what isn’t. How you don't allow others to take advantage of you or manipulate you.

The boundaries are healthy and not immature at all. People who dont have them end up being treated badly and prime target for narcissists and such.

Re: Autism severity can change substantially during early childhood, study suggests

#156

Post by bitwize »

kstenerud wrote: post #9
scandox wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Presumably they're creeped out because they believe your emotional responses are simulated and that your engagement in phatic discourse is inauthentic? But how they can they tell the difference? And even if they can how do they know that this isn't also true of everybody else, only that others are superior fakers? How can they even know that their own responses are authentic? I ask because I'm really not sure about t…

In my attempts to discover the secret behind perfect social interaction, people I've spoken to have been unable to explain exactly how they do it. It seems reasonable to assume that the brains of social animals are specially tuned to learn social interaction quickly, as such individuals would more quickly form a cohesive group with better survival potential (historically speaking). The question of authenticity, thoug…

They don't know how they do it because they delegate it to specialized hardware. You have specialized hardware too but your brain has repurposed it to other tasks. You have to train yourself to do social interaction, and you can get pretty good at it. The people who have it implemented in hardware, however, unconsciously employ a series of tests to determine whether you're ingroup or outgroup. Some of these tests are timing-based and you will flunk if you cannot produce the correct social response at the correct time. Difficult to do unless you're hardwired with their ingroup's form of social programming.

Re: Autism severity can change substantially during early childhood, study suggests

#157

Post by globular-toast »

leetcrew wrote: post #84
globular-toast wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm pretty autistic, but the funny thing is I don't keep friendships because I get bored, not them. I was a complete recluse during most of my time at university. I decided I wanted to mate with women when I was about 25 so started to make myself more "marketable". The first stage is being able to make friends. First thing is the way you look. People like you more if you're good looking. First step is to make sure yo…

some of the wording you used was kind of blunt, but I mostly agree with what you said, especially as a "socializing 101" type explanation. > The number one rule you need to keep in mind is to be positive. Do NOT tell people they are doing something wrong. Do NOT tell people you don't like something. Always continue a conversation in a positive way. If they mention a band you don't like, mention a band you do like. If…

That's true but if you're going to disagree you have to be presenting your own argument and be ready to genuinely convince them. Too many slightly autistic computer science students would just go on a tirade against the thing the other person said without arguing for anything else.

Re: Autism severity can change substantially during early childhood, study suggests

#158

Post by rrmm »

amelius wrote: post #63
surfpel wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have become close to several extremely social people and discussed this quite a bit. I realized that they approach socializing the same way I approach engineering and the like. At a party they clearly see the subtle or not so subtle effects of their actions and gauge the situation on a meta level without even really realizing that they’re doing it. It’s almost as though some of my neural circuitry originally intend…

> I realized that they approach socializing the same way I approach engineering and the like. That sounds like a dishonest way of treating people, and might be a reason why some people prefer to be more introvert.

As long as your external actions and your underlying goals are in harmony there is no dishonesty.

Look at it like this:

I have a friend.

Friends try to do good things for each other.

My friend seems different today than they are usually.

They are sad.

My friend likes getting flowers.

I want them to be happier.

I will say something nice and buy them a flower.

It cheered them up a bit.

I will ask how they are, because I notice that other people do that for their friends and it helps.

On the one hand you could say, hey that's calculated manipulation. Which it kind of is and that sounds negative and dishonest.

But there is nothing dishonest about it. It's something many people might do without even thinking about which is why it seems odd to spell out as a rational process. But if you don't get it intuitively, you may have to resort to a rational process to figure out how to cheer your friend up.

Re: Autism severity can change substantially during early childhood, study suggests

#159

Post by fragmede »

valuearb wrote: post #76
kstenerud wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's sort of the problem. I don't have a solid baseline to work against. I observe certain behaviors like facial expressions (smiling convincingly is especially difficult), discussions about irrelevant things (except that they serve a social function), looking into someone's eyes (very difficult), certain postures that have meaning (you're bored, you're angry, you're... something) . It's a lot to keep straight in y…

Eyes! Eyes! Is what I tell my 13 year old daughter. But she is far more comfortable looking away while in conversation. The theory that has resonated most with me is that both facial interpretations and language processing are very cerebral processor intensive. Turning off your facial tracking algorithm by looking away frees more brain nodes to help with processing and thinking about what you are hearing and saying.…

Find a video (youtube) where autistic people (especially women) describe how they mask. In particular, staring really hard at where the person's third eye would be, or smiling really hard at them (to the point of squinting) may work for some.

Re: Autism severity can change substantially during early childhood, study suggests

#160

Post by _y5hn »

watwut wrote: post #155
_y5hn wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It can also be a superpower, to raise issues across boundaries that most people give up and submit to silently. If you're wrong, the backlash prevents much damage and everyone learns something "new". In many cases, the boundaries are self-sabotage and immaturity, ie. org silos.

It is superpower when you know where and when to use it for benefit. That is pretty much opposite of autism, where the person is using it randomly and often to personal loss. > If you're wrong, the backlash prevents much damage and everyone learns something "new". Backslash gets autistic bullied in retaliation. Often by people who perceive autistic to be bully and feel righteous in "self defense". > In many cases, th…

Being human is being of service. But it's mostly learned behaviour, or need some guidance. Personal boundaries can also be learned. Surrounding oneself with people of best intentions can unlock much human potential. Though there's limited attention to distribute, so net can't be cast too broadly.
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