Live data from Hacker News

Autism severity can change substantially during early childhood, study suggests

health.ucdavis.edu

51–60 of 188 posts

Re: Autism severity can change substantially during early childhood, study suggests

#51
post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In my attempts to discover the secret behind perfect social interaction, people I've spoken to have been unable to explain exactly how they do it. It seems reasonable to assume that the brains of social animals are specially tuned to learn social interaction quickly, as such individuals would more quickly form a cohesive group with better survival potential (historically speaking). The question of authenticity, thoug…

I have become close to several extremely social people and discussed this quite a bit. I realized that they approach socializing the same way I approach engineering and the like. At a party they clearly see the subtle or not so subtle effects of their actions and gauge the situation on a meta level without even really realizing that they’re doing it. It’s almost as though some of my neural circuitry originally intend…

I experience this in a sense when I meditate deeply (= a 10 day retreat, 10 hours per day). What I see in my field of vision, I then feel in my body. It's a whole new information channel that I'm able to tap into, and it's lightning quick. It tapered down a bit since I'm not meditating anymore, but it didn't fully go away (this was 8 years ago).

What I think that happens: my insula attached to the default mode network and is feeding information into it. It gives the ability of being much more sensitive at certain forms of empathy.

I remember before I went in thinking: research says I'll be better at emotional intelligence when I do this, I wonder what will happen. 10 days later I realized I became a lot better at empathy. So my emotional intelligence did grow :)

There's quite some research on this, but I'm going to be lazy and simply recommend Search Inside Yourself.

Disclaimer: the experience discussed in this comment is one of the reasons why I chose my username back in the day. So I'm biased.

Re: Autism severity can change substantially during early childhood, study suggests

#52
post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Bumble is only slightly less shallow than tinder. Okcupid is much better suited for this task.

Isn't OkCupid for dating? Bumble has a mode specifically for finding friends.

At the end of the day it’s up to you. When I used it plenty of people were there for just friends. No dedicated feature tho

Re: Autism severity can change substantially during early childhood, study suggests

#53

I have high-functioning autism. Does anyone have some suggestions for making and keeping friends? When I meet a friend, things seem to go really well at first, and then my friend seems to slowly get bored of the interactions we have, and after a couple months I just don't hear from them again. Not sure what I'm doing wrong. Is there a scientific way to find out?

There is very likely not a reliable scientific guide to making and keeping friends, because it depends very much on the circumstances and the people involved.

Some people have many shallow friendships, others just a few deep ones.

Some people extend the hand of friendship early, others take years of persistence to become friends with.

Some people value time spent together on shared experiences, others value talking, others value gifts or help in times of crisis and others value being told how good a friend they are (once the friendship is clearly there).

Many people are friends with individuals they have known since high school and it is generally harder to make new friends after that point. It's also pretty easy to lose friends as you age due to differences of opinions or beliefs.

Perhaps the biggest skills in making and retaining friends is finding common activities and experiences you can share with them (outings, games, sport, dining, interests, topics of discussion, etc.) and finding the right time to invite them to engage with you in such things.

Very often there are logistical hurdles to overcome and that is all: do they have a car, is there a convenient bus, is the venue you are meeting nearby, are you available when they are, do they have a babysitter, is the suggested date suitable for them, have they currently got some other crisis or deadline to deal with, etc.

I find that if I ask to spend time with people too often, they may think I am "clingy" or "needy" and push me away. If I ask too little, the friendship never really gets established. It's a balance that is different for everyone.

Re: Autism severity can change substantially during early childhood, study suggests

#55
post #46
post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Presumably they're creeped out because they believe your emotional responses are simulated and that your engagement in phatic discourse is inauthentic? Why would you assume that? While it is theoretical possibility, there are many more other possibilities in play.

Well that's why I put a question mark on the end. It was my best guess.

I would not expect it to be authenticity and complicated philosophy or self.

It may simply be, that communicating with autistic takes much more effort from neurotypical people, is more frustrating. Eventually they stop trying and putting that effort on. Just as communicating with other is tiring for autistic, except neurotypicals have plenty of neurotypicals around to communicate with.

I dont really want to guess, knowing nothing about parent. But the issues in communication with different functional autistic people I had observed that broke it down where things related to social interactions. For example, inability to imagine yourself in other peoples situation can make autistic look selfish and unfair (when enforcing rules for example). It also makes it hard to impossible to strike compromise as opponents situation is not taken into account by autistic and is perceived as "illogical".

Autistic can be overstepping boundaries without really knowing, making people uncomfortable as they have to defend those boundaries. Can be insulting or controlling without having bad intention, which forces other people to react to it in "defense" or leave for own sanity.

Re: Autism severity can change substantially during early childhood, study suggests

#56

I have high-functioning autism. Does anyone have some suggestions for making and keeping friends? When I meet a friend, things seem to go really well at first, and then my friend seems to slowly get bored of the interactions we have, and after a couple months I just don't hear from them again. Not sure what I'm doing wrong. Is there a scientific way to find out?

I'm pretty autistic, but the funny thing is I don't keep friendships because I get bored, not them. I was a complete recluse during most of my time at university. I decided I wanted to mate with women when I was about 25 so started to make myself more "marketable". The first stage is being able to make friends.

First thing is the way you look. People like you more if you're good looking. First step is to make sure you're in excellent shape. That means lean to the extend that you can see your cheeks, abdominal muscles and veins on your forearms are prominent. Get yourself a pull up bar and start doing chin ups and press ups every single day.

Then once you're in shape you find a clothing style that works for you. Stick to classic. Don't dress like a child. Wear smart and expensive shoes. Aim to always dress slightly better than you should be at any event, but just slightly. Groom well. Smell good. Grow a beard if you can but keep it very well groomed. Shave your head if you're going bald.

You might think this sounds silly so far, but looking good is very, very important.

People will compliment you on your appearance. Take the compliments. Thank them. Do not automatically compliment them back.

Second thing is to work on your personality. You will be smarter than 95% of people you meet. There's no doubt about it. You will know more and care more about most subjects that come up. Do not under any circumstances use this to "one up" people. The number one rule you need to keep in mind is to be positive. Do NOT tell people they are doing something wrong. Do NOT tell people you don't like something. Always continue a conversation in a positive way. If they mention a band you don't like, mention a band you do like. If they mention a technique that is suboptimal, mention a technique you have found works for you (not "is better").

If you employ this positive outlook along with a broad knowledge and range of interests you will be a person that people like. Hope it helps.

Also, if you are willing to try drugs, MDMA might help you. I wouldn't recommend alcohol or cannabis to anyone, but MDMA is worth it.

Re: Autism severity can change substantially during early childhood, study suggests

#57

I have high-functioning autism. Does anyone have some suggestions for making and keeping friends? When I meet a friend, things seem to go really well at first, and then my friend seems to slowly get bored of the interactions we have, and after a couple months I just don't hear from them again. Not sure what I'm doing wrong. Is there a scientific way to find out?

Small tip: look for smiles in the corners of the eyes. This happens when laughter is genuine. If you do things that make someone laugh genuinely, they will probably stick around.

How to Win Friends and Influence people is also a masterful book for socializing. It basically teaches you what naturals do automatically.

Re: Autism severity can change substantially during early childhood, study suggests

#58
post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have become close to several extremely social people and discussed this quite a bit. I realized that they approach socializing the same way I approach engineering and the like. At a party they clearly see the subtle or not so subtle effects of their actions and gauge the situation on a meta level without even really realizing that they’re doing it. It’s almost as though some of my neural circuitry originally intend…

I experience this in a sense when I meditate deeply (= a 10 day retreat, 10 hours per day). What I see in my field of vision, I then feel in my body. It's a whole new information channel that I'm able to tap into, and it's lightning quick. It tapered down a bit since I'm not meditating anymore, but it didn't fully go away (this was 8 years ago). What I think that happens: my insula attached to the default mode networ…

Care to plug the retreat? Or a similar option?

Re: Autism severity can change substantially during early childhood, study suggests

#59

I have high-functioning autism. Does anyone have some suggestions for making and keeping friends? When I meet a friend, things seem to go really well at first, and then my friend seems to slowly get bored of the interactions we have, and after a couple months I just don't hear from them again. Not sure what I'm doing wrong. Is there a scientific way to find out?

Hmm... this is just a suspicion. But one possible reason could be that you're too serious and not playful enough.

I could totally miss the mark here, but that is what I've seen in my own life. I make a friend am too serious, couple of months later I am all by myself again.

So I decided to become more playful, and that really worked! If you are noticing that you might be too serious yourself and might need some playfulness. Here are a couple of things I did:

1. Asking: how am I naturally already playful, I enhanced that. I simply looked harder for more situations to utilize that playfulness.

2. Understanding: what is playfulness? It took me 2.5 years to understand that it means to not be serious (e.g. the sky is purple and there BE CATS ON CATNIP ATTACKING US! 2.5 years of trying to get an emotional feel for playfulness. Yep, it didn't come easy but now I have a hang for it. It's quite fun :)

3. What type of playfulness can I do?

This list is non-exhaustive. Note: always err on the side of being respectful if you feel a that a certain form of playfulness is too difficult to pull off. If you don't do that, then you risk being a little mean, and a little offending and all those things. It's not the end of the world, but it's simply not nice.

The types that I know:

- The roleplay: I once approached a woman in a club pretending I was her long lost brother and that I was raised in the jungle by apes and that I was still learning her language speaking very broken English. She laughed her ass off and played along. Who knew that pretending to learn English could be so fun!

- The fantastical exageration: I already provided an example of that.

- Teasing: teasing is like trying to hurt the other person with the twist that it should be positive and not actually hurt them. If this idea seems confusing, err on the side of being positive and not hurting people.

- Trolling: it feels like teasing but it isn't. You basically try to fool someone a bit, but you do need to see if they are able to take it. Err on the side of caution and safety. One friend I have used to be a bit rigid. He's gotten used to me now. So with him I could be quite light saying like: "look, it's a red tree." "No Mettamage, it's brown!" "No it's red, it's like a hellspawn from Satan!" "What do you mean, it's so clearly brown, what are you smoking?" "Everrryything my friend. Want some? ;-)" "My god dude, everything? Haha, you're crazy mettamage" "I know :-)" "Hit me up" "For sure" "Oh, yea, now I see that tree is totally red!" (just to be super explicit: the smoking thing was a roleplay, no one smoked anything)

- Musical improv: I did this since I was 4, it's second nature. Just pretend that life is one big improvized jazz band and hum and dance along with it to whomever you're talking to. It's quite Disney-like really, like some Disney character suddenly starts singing.

4. What happens if I fail? Are there failure modes that I can't recover from?

If people simply think you said something silly but weird, you're fine. If you went a bit controversial and tried to be playful that might pose a problem, so the tricky bit is to stay light. My guide is to stay respectful, that helps a lot.

5. Are there forms of social imitation I could learn from?

- Watch comedy that you like but is popular

- Go to improv classes

Re: Autism severity can change substantially during early childhood, study suggests

#60
post #6

> The study also found that IQ had a significant relationship with change in symptom severity. Children with higher IQs were more likely to show a reduction in ASD symptoms. This is important information. People of higher intelligence would be more likely to learn things, such as how to mask effectively. I learned to mask so well that most people are shocked to learn that I'm autistic. It takes about 6 months of cons…

Presumably they're creeped out because they believe your emotional responses are simulated and that your engagement in phatic discourse is inauthentic? But how they can they tell the difference? And even if they can how do they know that this isn't also true of everybody else, only that others are superior fakers? How can they even know that their own responses are authentic? I ask because I'm really not sure about t…

It's sort of like telepathy, seriously. On Star Trek, there was Deanna Troi who was empathic, telepathic with emotions only.

I actually think it goes even beyond feeling to thought as well. We are extremely sensitive to the inner mental lives of others and respond both consciously and unconsciously. It takes a sociopath or an extremely practiced actor to fool us. For the vast number of people, we can read their inner mental states as easily and effortlessly as reading a roadsign, even if they don't want to be read and are trying to hide their true feelings or opinions. Children are especially easy to read, which is why they can't hide anything from their parents.

And since we can almost all do this, many conversations, especially work conversations exhibit a sort of continuous doublespeak where there's what I say and what I mean and I can't tell you what I mean outright since it would be rude or unprofessional but I know you know what I mean.

But when I notice someone on the spectrum, I start speaking explicitly with the understanding that the content of what I say will be much more important then what I'm feeling.

Post reply on HN