Caught on camera, police explode in rage and violence across the US • Hacker News Board

Re: Caught on camera, police explode in rage and violence across the US

#21

Post by verdverm » Sun, May 31, 2020, 8:21 PM UTC

testbot123 wrote: post #19

verdverm wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I guess you get down voted for not blindly becoming outraged at only one side. I'm just not about getting myself that emotional ever.

I think you're being downvoted because you're in a thread about police brutality and are attempting to frame this as the fault of the people being brutalized.

I think anyone who wrongs another is ...wrong

Is there something wrong with that? (where is the average moral compass of society today? how far am I from that?)

Is asking about how people can condemn one version of malevolence and condon another wrong? (just noticed how close malevolence is to "male violence")

Are we past the point of trying to hold each other to higher standards? (is that what the protests are about?)

What percentage of the protesters / rioters would not be there if they had jobs to go to? (is this more accentuated because the covid shelter in place is ending?)

Re: Caught on camera, police explode in rage and violence across the US

#22

Post by onemoresoop » Sun, May 31, 2020, 8:21 PM UTC

verdverm wrote: post #12

Are there videos where protesters are beyond acceptable behavior? Rioters? I doubt this is a one way street by any measure. https://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/nyc-crime/cops-shot-bro... There was some pretty awful things happening on the live streams last night. I'm surprised by how many people streamed themselves committing crimes. Are they ignorant or just dumb? The police just started taking pictures of everyone

How about instigators? Are you aware of white supremacists? I saw a video with a white guy breaking windows with a hammer and protesters chased him away. These tactics have been used before.

That is not to say that there aren’t bad actors on each side, there are. I didn’t like the looting but I think its nothing compared to how systematically broken things are.

Im white and I do break the law here and there, minor stuff and sometimes by accident: going above speed limit or smoking pot. If i were not white it’s likely that I would have ended up in jail.

When I was younger I’d do stupid things like trespass some propery with my friends, for fun. We would be caught sometimes and let go with a warning. They understood we were kids doing stupid stuff. Well, i dont need to tell you what would have happened if I was black, you probably know..

Re: Caught on camera, police explode in rage and violence across the US

#23

Post by verdverm » Sun, May 31, 2020, 8:27 PM UTC

onemoresoop wrote: post #22

verdverm wrote: post #12

Are there videos where protesters are beyond acceptable behavior? Rioters? I doubt this is a one way street by any measure. https://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/nyc-crime/cops-shot-bro... There was some pretty awful things happening on the live streams last night. I'm surprised by how many people streamed themselves committing crimes. Are they ignorant or just dumb? The police just started taking pictures of everyone

How about instigators? Are you aware of white supremacists? I saw a video with a white guy breaking windows with a hammer and protesters chased him away. These tactics have been used before. That is not to say that there aren’t bad actors on each side, there are. I didn’t like the looting but I think its nothing compared to how systematically broken things are. Im white and I do break the law here and there, minor st…

I'm white, I've been in jail (not prison), I've been put to the ground by an officer, I was doing dumb shit when I was a dumb shit.

But as soon as you introduce color, aren't you seeing color and preventing the fundamental problem from fading away?

You can't force it away, you have to teach it away, right?

Do children see color naturally or do we teach them how? Where are they primarily learning this? (I suspect from video screens more so than IRL, sources widely varied)

Re: Caught on camera, police explode in rage and violence across the US

#24

Post by jvdizzle » Sun, May 31, 2020, 8:32 PM UTC

verdverm wrote: post #21

testbot123 wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you're being downvoted because you're in a thread about police brutality and are attempting to frame this as the fault of the people being brutalized.

I think anyone who wrongs another is ...wrong Is there something wrong with that? (where is the average moral compass of society today? how far am I from that?) Is asking about how people can condemn one version of malevolence and condon another wrong? (just noticed how close malevolence is to "male violence") Are we past the point of trying to hold each other to higher standards? (is that what the protests are about…

Literally no one is condoning assassination of police officers on- or off-duty. No one is condoning rioting or looting. But we are adult enough to understand that rioting and looting are the result of civil unrest when the people do not feel heard.

Re: Caught on camera, police explode in rage and violence across the US

#25

Post by verdverm » Sun, May 31, 2020, 8:34 PM UTC

verdverm wrote: post #11

I forgot about that, and how pissed it made me. Also forgot how people revenge killed good, innocent cops https://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/nyc-crime/cops-shot-bro...

Do those of you downvoting me, do you think it's because I think those officers are innocent or something?

They are guilty.

I also think there are many people using this tragedy as an excuse to commit crime and somehow justify their behavior via a bifurcation of their world view.

Are you applying your beliefs about a group (the police in this case) at an individual level or in one broad stroke? Is not the definition of bias / prejudice (racism as a subset?) essentially applying beliefs at the group level rather than the individual level?

Re: Caught on camera, police explode in rage and violence across the US

#26

Post by testbot123 » Sun, May 31, 2020, 8:35 PM UTC

verdverm wrote: post #21

testbot123 wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you're being downvoted because you're in a thread about police brutality and are attempting to frame this as the fault of the people being brutalized.

I think anyone who wrongs another is ...wrong Is there something wrong with that? (where is the average moral compass of society today? how far am I from that?) Is asking about how people can condemn one version of malevolence and condon another wrong? (just noticed how close malevolence is to "male violence") Are we past the point of trying to hold each other to higher standards? (is that what the protests are about…

> I think anyone who wrongs another is ...wrong [...] Is there something wrong with that?

No, but that is an overly simplistic reduction of the current situation in the United States, and any conversation around this situation requires an acknowledgement of its complete history and many nuances.

> Is asking about how people can condemn one version of malevolence and condon another wrong?

No, but what was the point of linking that unrelated article from 2014? Would you like me, a protestor, to condemn it? I condemn it. And I also condemn police brutality because it is so much more frequent, disproportionate, and violent.

> Are we past the point of trying to hold each other to higher standards?

No. Police must be held to a higher standard, period. They have badges and guns and are entrusted with a higher power.

> What percentage of the protesters / rioters would not be there if they had jobs to go to?

I don't know, I don't have that data. But from personal experience, I can tell you that people in this country are fed up with police forces that have no accountability. This is a natural consequence of allowing violent LEOs go unpunished for years, with no recourse for the innocent people being brutalized.

Re: Caught on camera, police explode in rage and violence across the US

#27

Post by bobbylarrybobby » Sun, May 31, 2020, 8:44 PM UTC

_xerces_ wrote: post #18

bsd44 wrote: post #15

United States is a police state. I said it 20 years ago, people laughed. Now you see if for yourself. American police have positioned themselves as the enemy of the people because they see people as their enemy. And the only way to stop the enemy is by applying brute force. If they're doing all this in front of cameras, imagine what they do when nobody is looking. Whereas in other countries, such as the UK, police ar…

How did this come about, is it the consequence of an armed society, or something else unique to Americans?

Militarization of the police following 9/11.

Re: Caught on camera, police explode in rage and violence across the US

#28

Post by ttfkam » Sun, May 31, 2020, 8:44 PM UTC

_xerces_ wrote: post #18

bsd44 wrote: post #15

United States is a police state. I said it 20 years ago, people laughed. Now you see if for yourself. American police have positioned themselves as the enemy of the people because they see people as their enemy. And the only way to stop the enemy is by applying brute force. If they're doing all this in front of cameras, imagine what they do when nobody is looking. Whereas in other countries, such as the UK, police ar…

How did this come about, is it the consequence of an armed society, or something else unique to Americans?

Racism is a hell of a drug. It's the US's original sin. One it has never truly confronted in any lasting manner.

Re: Caught on camera, police explode in rage and violence across the US

#29

Post by watwut » Sun, May 31, 2020, 8:44 PM UTC

verdverm wrote: post #13

verdverm wrote: post #12

Are there videos where protesters are beyond acceptable behavior? Rioters? I doubt this is a one way street by any measure. https://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/nyc-crime/cops-shot-bro... There was some pretty awful things happening on the live streams last night. I'm surprised by how many people streamed themselves committing crimes. Are they ignorant or just dumb? The police just started taking pictures of everyone

I guess you get down voted for not blindly becoming outraged at only one side. I'm just not about getting myself that emotional ever.

Looting in one part of city does not excuses violence against demonstration in another part of city.

The two sides framing is manipulative and seeks to excuse violence against one group of people by acts of another group.

Re: Caught on camera, police explode in rage and violence across the US

#30

Post by verdverm » Sun, May 31, 2020, 8:44 PM UTC

testbot123 wrote: post #26

verdverm wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think anyone who wrongs another is ...wrong Is there something wrong with that? (where is the average moral compass of society today? how far am I from that?) Is asking about how people can condemn one version of malevolence and condon another wrong? (just noticed how close malevolence is to "male violence") Are we past the point of trying to hold each other to higher standards? (is that what the protests are about…

> I think anyone who wrongs another is ...wrong [...] Is there something wrong with that? No, but that is an overly simplistic reduction of the current situation in the United States, and any conversation around this situation requires an acknowledgement of its complete history and many nuances. > Is asking about how people can condemn one version of malevolence and condon another wrong? No, but what was the point of…

> No, but that is an overly simplistic reduction of the current situation in the United States, and any conversation around this situation requires an acknowledgement of its complete history and many nuances.

I've been saying this about covid for a while, this is my main point.

> No, but what was the point of linking that unrelated article from 2014?

The article is about a police assassination in direct response to police killing to black men. It seems related to me, how is it not?

> 3 & 4...

This applies to a large number of groups. Congress and the MediaMachine have much lower approval ratings than the police.

Again, you are painting the police with one large brush, this sounds a lot like prejudice and loss of appreciation that people come in all types in all professions and walks of life.