How to Safely and Ethically Film Police Misconduct • Hacker News Board

Re: How to Safely and Ethically Film Police Misconduct

#161

Post by mbrameld » Sun, May 31, 2020, 4:50 PM UTC

germinalphrase wrote: post #113

dessant wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You don't even need to leave your porch to get shot. Police and National Guard are patrolling neighborhoods and shooting civilians with paint canisters on their own property in Minneapolis. In one case they yelled "Light 'em up!" before starting to shoot [1] with ammunition that could blind people. It's legal to be outside your house during the curfew in Minneapolis [2]. > Can I be outside my house (on my property) a…

I’m a local. Here’s some additional context: “Follow up on video of people getting rubber bullets shot at them in their doorway from a source that was there. This was personally texted to me. Source is a teacher that works at my elementary school. Here’s what was posted. ‘That is my blue house across the street. Apparently this video has gone viral. What they didn’t show was the 20- 30 minutes of the rioters that sur…

Nobody managed to get a video of the rioters? Doesn't that seem odd to you? Additional context is welcome as long as it's either verifiable or doesn't serve an obvious agenda.

Here's some additional context that's just as valid as yours: the "rioters" were actually defending the neighborhood from the police who had been there before your context began. The police were beating random people and shooting pets. The person that told me this lives in one of the houses in the video and she's a retired nurse who volunteers to care for hospice patients.

Re: How to Safely and Ethically Film Police Misconduct

#162

Post by collyw » Sun, May 31, 2020, 4:52 PM UTC

mtts wrote: post #158

collyw wrote: post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Profiling is seen as bad, but I honestly don't think many grandmas will be the ones committing violent crime (or females in general). If you have some statistics to prove otherwise please show me them.

Someone once explained it to me like this: Let's say 1% of the population commits crimes. Let's also, for the sake of argument, say all crimes are committed by black people. Of the general population, 10% is black. If you profile all black people, you will indeed profile the 1% of the population that commits crimes, but you will also profile 9% of the population that does not commit crimes. And before you say "not th…

So it better to target 99% of the population that don't commit crimes rather that 9%? You haven't convinced me. Interesting that you chose black people for your example, its almost like you are profiling them.

Re: How to Safely and Ethically Film Police Misconduct

#163

Post by gonzo41 » Sun, May 31, 2020, 4:55 PM UTC

leetcrew wrote: post #99

gruez wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That doesn't make any sense. How is the drone supposed to take off during normal operation?

GP is saying the sensors get into a bad state if the drone is powered on but not flying for a while. "normal operation" is powering on the drone and taking off almost immediately, then landing after 15-20 minutes. it's not inconceivable that most testing would follow this "happy path". the battery life of an idling drone might exceed the length of most test cases.

This is where a drone platform with an OS driver / control software would be great.

I bet the sensors and the control systems all have memory overflows or number range issues in the software that isn't being dealt with because it's a closed system. Add to that few if any customers are asking to use their drone as a static tripod.

Re: How to Safely and Ethically Film Police Misconduct

#164

Post by chepaslaaa » Sun, May 31, 2020, 5:00 PM UTC

rsynnott wrote: post #41

michaelt wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> inescapable structural pressure I agree it's a severe problem, but I don't agree it's inescapable. It's a job that attracts brutal people only because it's a job that lets them get away with brutality. If the cycle of allowing brutality and attracting brutes could be broken, there's a good chance it'd stay broken. The police fraternity knows all about getting other cops to fall into line - just look at the "blue wa…

I wonder if part of why it seems particularly bad (for a developed country) in the US is the local police force system. In countries with national police forces, misconduct investigations are often conducted by specialist staff who may be from the other side of the country, who likely aren't really in the same org chart, and so on. It seems intuitively less likely to produce a fair result if the people investigating…

The national police force in Canada rapes and murders native women with complete impunity. It might be a bit better in that there are less extrajudicial murders, but it's far from being great.

Re: How to Safely and Ethically Film Police Misconduct

#165

Post by briefcomment » Sun, May 31, 2020, 5:01 PM UTC

mbrameld wrote: post #161

germinalphrase wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m a local. Here’s some additional context: “Follow up on video of people getting rubber bullets shot at them in their doorway from a source that was there. This was personally texted to me. Source is a teacher that works at my elementary school. Here’s what was posted. ‘That is my blue house across the street. Apparently this video has gone viral. What they didn’t show was the 20- 30 minutes of the rioters that sur…

Nobody managed to get a video of the rioters? Doesn't that seem odd to you? Additional context is welcome as long as it's either verifiable or doesn't serve an obvious agenda. Here's some additional context that's just as valid as yours: the "rioters" were actually defending the neighborhood from the police who had been there before your context began. The police were beating random people and shooting pets. The pers…

Both your claim and the parent's claim are equally shocking, and the evidence for both is hearsay from someone who lives on the street. How do we know who is being sincere, who is pushing an agenda, who is mistaken, who is experiencing cognitive dissonance, etc.

Re: How to Safely and Ethically Film Police Misconduct

#166

Post by watwut » Sun, May 31, 2020, 5:03 PM UTC

JamesBarney wrote: post #144

ficklepickle wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Cause or effect? I would argue that the warrior cop mentality escalates violence. That style of police training was banned by the mayor in Minneapolis, yet it continues to be taught and implemented. You have a very sick society and until you realize it is not all the fault of one group it will persist.

That more aggressive policing causes an order of magnitude more crime seems like a theory that doesn't pass the smell test to me. Is there a good reason to believe that it's true?

More aggressive policing does not imply more solved crimes. It does not imply that actual worst wrongdoers get caught with some kind of effectivity.

However, it implies antagonized population where even innocent people will avoid police contact, whether reporting of crime, informing to police or otherwise cooperating with them as much as possible. It implies that people dont see police as an institution to protect them and dont use them as such.

More aggressive may mean quotas for arrests - leading to arrests that have nothing to do with public safety. It is easier to arrest someone apparently poor for loitering or sorta kinda open bottle of alcohol then someone actually violent.

Same with fines. For example, if the masks are mandatory outside, cops can either issue warning or give you a find. In most cases, warning is enough to make people comply and take it seriously. Fine is used only when people refuse to comply. If cops were aggressive and issued fine immediately to everyone who had half nose out of mask, we would not be safer.

More aggressive means exactly that and nothing more.

Re: How to Safely and Ethically Film Police Misconduct

#167

Post by danharaj » Sun, May 31, 2020, 5:10 PM UTC

briefcomment wrote: post #165

mbrameld wrote: post #161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nobody managed to get a video of the rioters? Doesn't that seem odd to you? Additional context is welcome as long as it's either verifiable or doesn't serve an obvious agenda. Here's some additional context that's just as valid as yours: the "rioters" were actually defending the neighborhood from the police who had been there before your context began. The police were beating random people and shooting pets. The pers…

Both your claim and the parent's claim are equally shocking, and the evidence for both is hearsay from someone who lives on the street. How do we know who is being sincere, who is pushing an agenda, who is mistaken, who is experiencing cognitive dissonance, etc.

The history of police being bastards towards protestors? If you think you have no way of establishing priors you aren't examining the facts.

Re: How to Safely and Ethically Film Police Misconduct

#168

Post by carapace » Sun, May 31, 2020, 5:12 PM UTC

ficklepickle wrote: post #119

rayiner wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The reason why it’s particularly bad in the US is that we’ve got insanely high levels of violent and organized crime. Baltimore, where I used to live, the homicide rate per 100,000 people is 30-50 times higher than in say Berlin, Madrid, London, etc. It’s almost double the rate of Bogota. That creates a police force that treats policing like its war, and public systems that give wide latitude to errors or misconduct,…

Cause or effect? I would argue that the warrior cop mentality escalates violence. That style of police training was banned by the mayor in Minneapolis, yet it continues to be taught and implemented. You have a very sick society and until you realize it is not all the fault of one group it will persist.

It's a cause: we here in the USA are pretty fucking nuts. I've heard a group of off-duty police discussing their work talking about going into a house and literally not knowing if the folks inside are going to open fire with automatic weapons. FWIW, I agree that "the warrior cop mentality" is a problem, and professionalism in police work is crucial, e.g. the Peelian principles ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peelian_principles )

> You have a very sick society

Yeah, but it's slowly getting better. Not this week, obviously, but the trend is there.

We are a nation built on genocide and psychotic slavery. Check out "An Indigenous Peoples' History of the United States" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/An_Indigenous_Peoples'_History...

Re: How to Safely and Ethically Film Police Misconduct

#169

Post by mindslight » Sun, May 31, 2020, 5:19 PM UTC

JamesBarney wrote: post #144

ficklepickle wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Cause or effect? I would argue that the warrior cop mentality escalates violence. That style of police training was banned by the mayor in Minneapolis, yet it continues to be taught and implemented. You have a very sick society and until you realize it is not all the fault of one group it will persist.

That more aggressive policing causes an order of magnitude more crime seems like a theory that doesn't pass the smell test to me. Is there a good reason to believe that it's true?

Yes, the entire spectrum of fiat crimes such as "the war on drugs". Without the existence of these, or without the will to aggressively enforce them, large swaths of crime would simply disappear. The disastrous results also spill over and create real crime, as people are unable resolve commercial disputes through the courts, but have to DIY.

At any rate, even if general society is more violent, that is not a justification for supposed police to add to the mayhem. When police officers are not bound by the law they purport to uphold, then they are actually just another gang.

Re: How to Safely and Ethically Film Police Misconduct

#170

Post by save_ferris » Sun, May 31, 2020, 5:20 PM UTC

germinalphrase wrote: post #160

bsanr2 wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This doesn't pass the sniff test. If they were rioters, they would likely not be rioting on their own porch. Hence, ordering them to go inside would mean breaking into someone else's house. On the other hand, if they're legitimately on their own proerty, and if they're not being disorderly, then what is the rationale for that use of force? I hate to say it, but I'm doubting the veracity of this account. There's nothi…

I’m not disagreeing with anyone about the inappropriateness of the police actions, but the account is not claiming that those shot in the video are rioters. Simply that the police we see were actively clearing rioters from the neighborhood and the porch people were caught up in it.

The area does look remarkably clean to have just had rioters on the street. There’s zero trash or debris on the ground, zero evidence of paint or smoke canister usage anywhere, and all of the houses and cars are immaculate. If there were people on the street prior to these police/soldiers arriving, it’s hard to imagine that they were looting or rioting.