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I Can't Breathe

blog.citigroup.com

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Re: I Can't Breathe

#51

Post by scarface74 »

realtalk_sp wrote: post #25
fzeroracer wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When you have the police state escalating the violence against you, you either get violent in return or you get the knee to your neck. The reason why things have gotten violent is as I mentioned in a prior post is self-defense. People don't trust the police at all, and why should they? We've seen them attack journalists multiple times, we've seen them assault people who were protesting peacefully and increasingly it…

I'd be careful to generalize from the almost certainly distorted view you have of the "facts on the ground". Also keep in mind the irony of weaponizing sweeping generalizations against a particular group of people. You should naturally expect some amount of badness in almost any sample of humans, including the police. It might also help to empathize with a cop on the ground in this situation when police stations have…

Why in the hell should I “empathize” with a police department that tried to cover it up until video was shown?

You should naturally expect some amount of badness in almost any sample of humans, including the police.

And the “badness” seems to only affect people who look like me...

But as Chris Rock said...

Well, it’s not most cops. It’s just a few bad apples. It’s just a few bad apples.” Bad apple? That’s a lovely name for murderer. That almost sounds nice. I’ve had a bad apple. It was tart, but it didn’t choke me out. Here’s the thing....But some jobs can’t have bad apples. Some jobs, everybody gotta be good. Like … pilots. Ya know, American Airlines can’t be like, “Most of our pilots like to land. We just got a few bad apples that like to crash into mountains. Please bear with us.”

Re: I Can't Breathe

#52

Post by wpietri »

realtalk_sp wrote: post #25
fzeroracer wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When you have the police state escalating the violence against you, you either get violent in return or you get the knee to your neck. The reason why things have gotten violent is as I mentioned in a prior post is self-defense. People don't trust the police at all, and why should they? We've seen them attack journalists multiple times, we've seen them assault people who were protesting peacefully and increasingly it…

I'd be careful to generalize from the almost certainly distorted view you have of the "facts on the ground". Also keep in mind the irony of weaponizing sweeping generalizations against a particular group of people. You should naturally expect some amount of badness in almost any sample of humans, including the police. It might also help to empathize with a cop on the ground in this situation when police stations have…

It's true that we need to be careful about generalization. But in the 6 years since Ferguson, nobody has done so much to convince me of the deep systemic problems in police departments as the heads of police unions. Time after time after time they have made it clear whose side they're on.

Re: I Can't Breathe

#53

Post by wpietri »

realtalk_sp wrote: post #15
wpietri wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From reports across the country, it's definitely unclear who is responsible for most of the rioting. Some people are clearly outsiders, provocateurs. In other places, it's clear that the cops are the ones escalating and provoking. There's a fair bit of evidence that protest organizers worked hard to stop rioting. Moreover, I think focusing too much on the property destruction is missing the point. As MLK says, "Riot…

I never said violent revolution isn't a possibly effective means of enacting political change. History in fact demonstrates that quite vividly. But violent revolution is also not, in the aggregate, a net benefit in the immediate term. Not even for black people. Believing otherwise represents a failure to anticipate 2nd/3rd order consequences and beyond. In the best case, you might experience a lot of suffering today…

This will not fly:

> the reason that black people still encounter systemic mistreatment 60 years later

The reason that black people encounter systemic mistreatment is white racism. Full stop. It's not due to a "flaw in MLK's logic".

Also, MLK was not advocating "violent revolution", so I think the flawed logic here is yours. Especially your notion that we just have to keep waiting for bigots to improve. It's two full generations since MLK walked the earth. Waiting doesn't work.

Re: I Can't Breathe

#54

Post by glangdale »

realtalk_sp wrote: post #18
glangdale wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe with only a finite amount of attention at his disposal, he opted to focus on the cause of the rioting? I know there's a whole bunch of galaxy-brain takes on this about how counterproductive the rioting is, but it's not like cops have needed any pretext to resort to "more horrible tactics" already.

Virtue signaling the obvious is a poor "return on attention", to borrow your way of looking at it. My point at the top was that it's the easy thing to do.

Perhaps; it's not clear to me that making a statement of "the obvious" is necessarily an "easy" thing to do from the heights of corporate America.

Incidentally, the overuse of "virtue signalling" to describe other people taking positions that they presumably sincerely believe in and wish to share with each other is incredibly snide, and if you don't want to come off like an asshole, you should stop. It's become one of those phrases that seems more like a pointless tribal "tic" (like "political correctness").

Re: I Can't Breathe

#55

Post by Taurenking »

scarface74 wrote: post #49
realtalk_sp wrote: post #7

I wish he'd gone a little further in condemning the rioting. It would have been the courageous thing to do. The rioting is a mistake. It will not change hearts and minds. It will not undo the problems endemic to police forces. In fact, it may very well exacerbate them. The problematic archetype is the bigoted cop who's drunk with power and behaves more like an animal operating on instinct than a thinking human. These…

How did that whole peacefully kneeling thing work out? But yes rioting does change things. It forces people to pay attention. Increased surveillance of political organizers and low-income neighborhoods, more military weaponry at their disposal, laxer guidelines around 'use of force'. Because those types of things never happened in during the peaceful marches in the 60s... We need to use the system of governance we ha…

And that's why we as black people need to step up and get into those positions of governance with the help of good white people who are already benefitting from their privilege.

We don't need more rappers, we need more politicians, doctors, engineers. People in positions of power so that the status quo can change.

Until then nothing's going to change, and IMHO that would take more than a couple generations

Re: I Can't Breathe

#56

Post by SSLy »

asjfj9 wrote: post #41
hckr_news wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you have any idea how PR is managed..

Coming from a University research background for the last 5 years after obtaining my PhD, no I don't. Could you elaborate on this? What process would this CFO need to go through to share this possibly "contentious" post on one of the world's largest and globally recognised banks' websites?

I think this is entirely depended on the way the C*O management culture (for lack of better expression). But at least I would expect he's let know legal, CEO, and the PR officer before.

Re: I Can't Breathe

#57

Post by dahfizz »

Rury wrote: post #30
brodouevencode wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

IDK, I’m a little more skeptical of this post. It seems more posturing than actually effecting change. CFOs have other means of doing that, in better ways than a simple blog post. This is no different than the celebrity cause du jour tweet except that it’s coming from a business leader rather than some actor/actress/pop star. Let’s see this CFO use their connections and influence to make things better in real ways.

Agreed. Actions speak louder than words. This (and many other company statements like this) are mostly empty nice feel good words, but merely that. Just like what a populist or demagogue would say/do to appear favorably in the eyes of others... IMO donating to an organization seems weak. It's like outsourcing the problem to someone else, and thinking your helping them because you're giving them money. If you really w…

What do you expect him to do?? This mindset is incredibly toxic. "If you are not personally fixing all the problems in the world you are weak". And what are you doing?? Complaining about it on HN?

There is a very reasonable argument that says this guy is using all the tools at his disposal. He has money, and he has influence. He is exercising both to make the world a better place. How can you possibly complain about that?

Re: I Can't Breathe

#58

Post by dahfizz »

brodouevencode wrote: post #24
rubyfan wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

what do you suggest?

I would hope and can safely assume that they (Citi) have relatively decent community and governmental connections. Leverage those.

Leverage them how? What are specific actions you think a bank can reasonably take to effect large scale social change?

Re: I Can't Breathe

#59

Post by dahfizz »

brodouevencode wrote: post #11
dahfizz wrote: post #2

Pretty bold of Citi to publish something like this. I wish more companies had the balls to do something like this... Not just some "Yay equality!!" Tweet, but a real and specific stance. Kudos.

IDK, I’m a little more skeptical of this post. It seems more posturing than actually effecting change. CFOs have other means of doing that, in better ways than a simple blog post. This is no different than the celebrity cause du jour tweet except that it’s coming from a business leader rather than some actor/actress/pop star. Let’s see this CFO use their connections and influence to make things better in real ways.

This is such a toxic and cynical stance. You are putting all responsibility onto people with "connections" so that you don't have to feel guilty about doing nothing. But at the same time, you are complaining that a rich and powerful person is using both their money and their influence to try and help!

You are part of the problem.

Re: I Can't Breathe

#60

Post by davidg109 »

I admit, I was cringing when I saw the Citi logo at first thinking they would somehow pivot this into some marketing ploy.

Good on Citi for taking a firm stand and calling on some organizations people can donate to, which I personally hadn’t heard of until I read the post.

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