Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Why T.S. Eliot still matters

standpointmag.co.uk

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

31–40 of 60 posts

Re: Why T.S. Eliot still matters

#31

Post by pvg »

jaredklewis wrote: post #29
Mediterraneo10 wrote: post #2

In the public forum, Eliot’s stature does seem to be high. Yet I wonder how many people celebrating him are under the age of thirty. Readers over thirty are likely to have discovered him in decades past when, firstly, there was more of a culture of actual print books (Eliot’s long and intricate verse works best on the physical page), and secondly, much of the canon (and the whole idea of a canon) had not yet been so…

> and for readers who believe that favoring female and minority voices is a moral and ethical issue, Eliot’s male and privileged background works against him. I find it strange that you suggest younger readers would pass over Eliot given his race and background. If one is going to mix ethics and art, surely the fact that Eliot was an adamant anti-semite would be considered long before Eliot's race or background. Even…

(or fellow anti-semites like Ezra Pound)

Not to make excuses for Eliot's anti-semitism but Pound was a raging fascist no mere 'fellow anti-semite'. A whole other level of ick.

Re: Why T.S. Eliot still matters

#32

Post by starkd »

jaredklewis wrote: post #29
Mediterraneo10 wrote: post #2

In the public forum, Eliot’s stature does seem to be high. Yet I wonder how many people celebrating him are under the age of thirty. Readers over thirty are likely to have discovered him in decades past when, firstly, there was more of a culture of actual print books (Eliot’s long and intricate verse works best on the physical page), and secondly, much of the canon (and the whole idea of a canon) had not yet been so…

> and for readers who believe that favoring female and minority voices is a moral and ethical issue, Eliot’s male and privileged background works against him. I find it strange that you suggest younger readers would pass over Eliot given his race and background. If one is going to mix ethics and art, surely the fact that Eliot was an adamant anti-semite would be considered long before Eliot's race or background. Even…

The literary critic, Christopher Ricks, disputes that characterization of Eliot as an anti-semite. He wrote a book in defense of him here: https://www.amazon.com/T-Eliot-Prejudice-Christopher-Ricks/d...

Re: Why T.S. Eliot still matters

#33

Post by artsyca »

vixen99 wrote: post #18
pyuser583 wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I discovered Eliot in my 20s. I’m still discovering him: I’ve been working my way through Four Quartets for about five years. Spent about 10 years discovering The Waste Land. Yes he’s a privileged white male. But even for younger readers, that’s not a huge turn off. Besides, he may have been gay. Regarding his public stature - he’s still present - more so than, say, Ezra Pound. For example, “Better You Believe” ( htt…

Some readers must have an enormous problem with literary output by 'anonymous'. They might even have to resort to judging a piece on its merit.

I understand what you mean don't let the downvotes discourage you

Re: Why T.S. Eliot still matters

#34

Post by artsyca »

pyuser583 wrote: post #7
Mediterraneo10 wrote: post #2

In the public forum, Eliot’s stature does seem to be high. Yet I wonder how many people celebrating him are under the age of thirty. Readers over thirty are likely to have discovered him in decades past when, firstly, there was more of a culture of actual print books (Eliot’s long and intricate verse works best on the physical page), and secondly, much of the canon (and the whole idea of a canon) had not yet been so…

I discovered Eliot in my 20s. I’m still discovering him: I’ve been working my way through Four Quartets for about five years. Spent about 10 years discovering The Waste Land. Yes he’s a privileged white male. But even for younger readers, that’s not a huge turn off. Besides, he may have been gay. Regarding his public stature - he’s still present - more so than, say, Ezra Pound. For example, “Better You Believe” ( htt…

I view the waste land as a form of hiphop before the concept ever existed. It's the pinnacle of rhythmic language and I guess it came before the beat generation? But yea it's like reading Ulysses by James Joyce -- you're better off reading it with a guide

Re: Why T.S. Eliot still matters

#37

Post by lostgame »

tines wrote: post #3
Mediterraneo10 wrote: post #2

In the public forum, Eliot’s stature does seem to be high. Yet I wonder how many people celebrating him are under the age of thirty. Readers over thirty are likely to have discovered him in decades past when, firstly, there was more of a culture of actual print books (Eliot’s long and intricate verse works best on the physical page), and secondly, much of the canon (and the whole idea of a canon) had not yet been so…

I think you're right, which saddens me. Is it not possible for a while elite male to write about the universal? "I will show you fear in a handful of dust." Who could remain unmoved by words like these, regardless of sex or color?

Right? David Bowie, for instance; incredibly influential to me despite his white male-ness.

Re: Why T.S. Eliot still matters

#38

Post by zebraflask »

brian_cunnie wrote: post #35

I remember the first time I read The Love Song of J. Alfred Prufrock. It spoke to me, powerfully. I tried The Wasteland next, but I didn't get it.

You have to be in the right frame of mind. I think it can help to look at it like a series of short stories, each one building up a psychological or philosophical premise under the surface that is then layered onto by the next.

Re: Why T.S. Eliot still matters

#39

Post by CamperBob2 »

watwut wrote: post #28
dilap wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> for readers who believe that favoring female and minority voices is a moral and ethical issue A strange morality indeed that mandates sexism and racism...

What is strange about it? The male only canon is result of morality that mandated sexism. If that was not strange, adding some women into mix is not strange and existence of some (apparently minority) people who prefer women should not be strange either.

It comes down to the old question, "Do two wrongs make a right?"

Re: Why T.S. Eliot still matters

#40

Post by pge »

artsyca wrote: post #34
pyuser583 wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I discovered Eliot in my 20s. I’m still discovering him: I’ve been working my way through Four Quartets for about five years. Spent about 10 years discovering The Waste Land. Yes he’s a privileged white male. But even for younger readers, that’s not a huge turn off. Besides, he may have been gay. Regarding his public stature - he’s still present - more so than, say, Ezra Pound. For example, “Better You Believe” ( htt…

I view the waste land as a form of hiphop before the concept ever existed. It's the pinnacle of rhythmic language and I guess it came before the beat generation? But yea it's like reading Ulysses by James Joyce -- you're better off reading it with a guide

The Beats are in the 50s (e.g., Howl 1956, On the Road 1957). The Waste Land is 1922.
Post reply on HN