US customs and border protection is flying a surveillance drone over Minneapolis • Hacker News Board

Re: US customs and border protection is flying a surveillance drone over Minneapolis

#421

Post by StylusEater » Sat, May 30, 2020, 3:40 AM UTC

ghettoimp wrote: post #420

StylusEater wrote: post #416

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No kidding about the schizophrenia. I don’t understand how people can implore the government to do more such as UBI or universal healthcare yet in the same breath complain about not being able to trust the “police state.” I doubt we can have privacy and a strong effective government. A strong government will be one that’s in your life a lot. Whether it’s under the auspices of good intent or not is probably irrelevant…

I might be one of these people? I want a government that trusts us and respects our rights (e.g., non police state) and that helps to provide for the poor and vulnerable (e.g., healthcare). I don't see any conflict between these goals. Our medicare providers are not flying drones and kneeling on necks.

There is massive conflict between the goals when power and money enter the discussion.

I’m also not sure where what you describe exists and how it’s implemented. I am curious to learn if anyone has any sources on such a place: great healthcare, highly involved citizens and low government intervention in daily life. And no, I’m not being sarcastic, I am sincerely wondering about it.

Re: US customs and border protection is flying a surveillance drone over Minneapolis

#422

Post by michaelmrose » Sat, May 30, 2020, 3:57 AM UTC

Alupis wrote: post #323

kelnos wrote: post #300

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If law enforcement did their jobs properly, things wouldn't escalate to the point where you need to worry about being looted or having your car flipped over and set on fire. This is a failure of law enforcement, and drone surveillance is a lazy band-aid that they're applying to a situation they themselves have caused. I certainly don't condone rioting, looting, and setting random buildings on fire. But the police cre…

> I certainly don't condone rioting, looting, and setting random buildings on fire. But the police created this situation. This specific situation? Ya, sure, maybe. What about the rioting, looting, setting buildings on fire, etc. in Berkeley because some students opposed Ben Shapiro giving a talk? How did the police create that situation? > The only thing the police should be doing in this situation is standing down,…

> What about the rioting, looting, setting buildings on fire, etc. in Berkeley because some students opposed Ben Shapiro giving a talk? How did the police create that situation?

The New York Times States

> By the end of the night, the authorities said they had arrested nine people, some of them accused of carrying banned weapons. But no major violence was reported.

People remember the consequences of sitting idly by during the rise of fascism. The proper response to fascist light is anger. Almost all the people were able to do this without getting arrested let alone setting buildings on fire.

> How exactly are the police being "punished" by my store being looted by people who don't even know why the riot started in the first place, let alone give any damns about someone being murdered by one police officer.

When order breaks down people a minority take advantage. Everyone knows why the riot started in the first place. You are justly angry about bad behavior but how angry were you when black person after black person was murdered? If you don't want order breaking down punish all the guilty especially officers who murder the citizenry.

Re: US customs and border protection is flying a surveillance drone over Minneapolis

#423

Post by remarkEon » Sat, May 30, 2020, 4:11 AM UTC

outworlder wrote: post #253

remarkEon wrote: post #212

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you watched an of the live feeds from the last two nights there are plenty of people who announce that they're from e.g. Nebraska and part of some Antifa faction. >A big part of the problem is Minneapolis’s moderates have turned a blind eye to the problems in their police force for years. I don't understand how people can honestly think this is true. The Police Commissioner is literally the guy from Internal Affai…

> The Police Commissioner is literally the guy from Internal Affairs who filed a lawsuit against the city for not promoting black officers fast enough. Looking after their own. Should I give them a cookie too and a belly rub? The protests are not about officer promotions.

And the protests are clearly also not about the death of George Floyd. Unless you think all of these small businesses being burnt to the ground were somehow complicit in his tragic death.

Re: US customs and border protection is flying a surveillance drone over Minneapolis

#424

Post by michaelmrose » Sat, May 30, 2020, 4:13 AM UTC

meragrin_ wrote: post #304

LanceH wrote: post #214

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think union rules can prevent someone from being arrested. Rules definitely can't stop a warrant from being issued.

It is not just any union and any normal person. It is union for a government occupation which has protections for mistakes during duty. They have to be extra careful. Let's just assume he was at some recent point trained to restrain in this manner and he can prove it. It is very unlikely he would be convicted since he was following his training and was unaware of the danger. If they were to try to convict him, I woul…

When people around you told you that you were murdering and it took 8 minutes to kill your restrained victim 3 minutes of which the victim was unresponsive there is no plausible scenario in which you can claim that you didn't know you were killing him.

There is no cause to review how he was trained or how his actions comport with said training except to prevent it from happening again. There is no scenario which allows you to knowingly cause the death of your fellow citizen without just cause. A police officer is "a normal person" the same laws that apply to me apply to thee. If those whose job it is to enforce the law treat another officer differently it is corruption and cowardice. Cowardice is a character flaw not a justification.

“We have made men proud of most vices, but not of cowardice. Whenever we have almost succeeded in doing so, God permits a war or an earthquake or some other calamity, and at once courage becomes so obviously lovely and important even in human eyes that all our work is undone, and there is still at least one vice of which they feel genuine shame. The danger of inducing cowardice in our patients, therefore, is lest we produce real self-knowledge and self-loathing, with consequent repentance and humility.”

― C.S. Lewis, The Screwtape Letters

Re: US customs and border protection is flying a surveillance drone over Minneapolis

#425

Post by michaelmrose » Sat, May 30, 2020, 4:20 AM UTC

meragrin_ wrote: post #308

HarryHirsch wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's hard to see why union rules would trump criminal procedure - if that were true the cops would really be a law above the law. You'd think the much delayed arrest was so that the suspects had time to scrub social media, get rid of Nazi paraphernalia, get their stories straight, that kind of thing. They can't get their fellow officers in trouble, that's part of their code.

It is a government position. It requires training and interactions which may cause death. If a person were trained to restrain a person in a manner which has a high likelihood to cause death and not informed of the risks, should the incorrectly trained person really be held liable for the person's death?

As I sit here trying to imagine the manner it which someone could come to the same conclusion as you I find myself unequal to the task. I don't know how it is possible for a person to come to the same conclusion after watching the tape.

It took 8 minuted for him to die 3 minutes of which he was unresponsive while people warned the cop and asked him to stop. The victim informed the murderer of exactly how he was being murdered and asked him to stop. He called out for his mother then stopped speaking at all while he died in silence. The method he was being killed would have been completely obvious to anyone who possessed a pair of lungs or understood how breathing worked.

Nobody gives precisely one hot damn what manner of training he received. It was obvious he was murdering his victim to a human of ordinary capability. The logical conclusion is that he didn't care or wanted to murder him.

Re: US customs and border protection is flying a surveillance drone over Minneapolis

#426

Post by chance_state » Sat, May 30, 2020, 4:31 AM UTC

t-writescode wrote: post #408

chance_state wrote: post #407

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I think it's reasonable to conclude either: > * this guy just wanted to do harm to the location for themselves > * somebody, acting alone or with others, is trying to either make the protests violent or make the protests look violent > * it's staged and the people staging the video are trying to make it look like there are agent provocateurs out there trying to either make the protests violent or make them look like…

What other options are in this list? And, it has nothing to do with the number of the options, 1 2 or 3. It has to do with the percentages of probabilities of each option. It could be there's a 90% chance of the first option and a 5% chance of the second and a 5% chance of the third. What possible situation did I miss in the collection?

>Again, someone please produce evidence that this person was a cop or agent provocateur, or stop posting this rumor.

Re: US customs and border protection is flying a surveillance drone over Minneapolis

#427

Post by walls » Sat, May 30, 2020, 4:45 AM UTC

lappet wrote: post #344

wayoutthere wrote: post #315

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Current manchild of the hour" has been identified as a police officer in plain clothes in other threads... There are a lot of provocateurs and I don't think we can align any of their motives with those of the protesters. Many are trying to create a justification for violence against the protesters. Some are just "break shit and get free stuff".

It is insane that a police officer in plain clothes would do that. Did they think they would not get caught?

Are you living in the same America as everyone else?

Re: US customs and border protection is flying a surveillance drone over Minneapolis

#428

Post by t-writescode » Sat, May 30, 2020, 5:33 AM UTC

chance_state wrote: post #426

t-writescode wrote: post #408

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What other options are in this list? And, it has nothing to do with the number of the options, 1 2 or 3. It has to do with the percentages of probabilities of each option. It could be there's a 90% chance of the first option and a 5% chance of the second and a 5% chance of the third. What possible situation did I miss in the collection?

>Again, someone please produce evidence that this person was a cop or agent provocateur, or stop posting this rumor.

Is posting an attempt at the exhaustive list of all the things he could be posting a rumor?

Is my list non-exhaustive?

Re: US customs and border protection is flying a surveillance drone over Minneapolis

#429

Post by a_tractor » Sat, May 30, 2020, 6:13 AM UTC

nicwolff wrote: post #261

virmundi wrote: post #191

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Have the blacks voted out those in power and positions to change things? Nope. Democrats all the way. Hell, Biden said if you’re black and you vote anything other than Democrat, you ain’t black.

No, he didn't. He said "If you have a problem figuring out whether you're for me or Trump, then you ain't black."

Is this your attempt at "defending the narrative"? Because what you just said... its actually worse? I mean, it doesn't get more literal than that.

Why does Joe Biden get a pass on the "white guy arrogantly dictating what is and is not permissible for blacks"? I don't know if its possible to be more delusional or cognitively dissonant.

I mean, wow. That's almost on the level of LBJ's "we''ll have those * voting Democrat for the next 100 years."

Talk about a "great society."

Re: US customs and border protection is flying a surveillance drone over Minneapolis

#430

Post by a_tractor » Sat, May 30, 2020, 6:15 AM UTC

ianleeclark wrote: post #200

nightski wrote: post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am from the area and I agree wholeheartedly that people > property. But let's be real, we saw a 182 unit multi story low income housing unit burn down to ash (the blaze was enormous). We also saw a police department building burn to ash. Countless local businesses have been completely destroyed by fire. That's a little more than spray paint and tv looting.

> But let's be real, we saw a 182 unit multi story low income housing unit burn down to ash (the blaze was enormous). This was a housing development that had some low-income units, but the majority were "market-price."

They were all "low-income" housing, the majority was just less low-income than others. My god that was a desperate argument.