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US customs and border protection is flying a surveillance drone over Minneapolis

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Re: US customs and border protection is flying a surveillance drone over Minneapolis

#361

Post by komali2 »

coryrc wrote: post #284
komali2 wrote: post #238

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Did they suffer from endless degrading at the hands of the police for generations? Cry more about target losing televisions, if the death of yet another unarmed black man makes you feel nothing at least the looting does.

People used to block café counters and demand to give money for service. Your racism is the soft bigotry of low expectations.

Did blocking cafe counters work? Look outside: did it work??

My racism. Hahah. I love this tactic - no YOU'RE the racist cause uhh, oh, I know, low expectations!

What low expectations? I AGREE that it's great that people are burning down police stations and looting massive capitalist businesses. You're the one coming here with a twisted ethical system that somehow places property over people. And you call me racist, lol.

Re: US customs and border protection is flying a surveillance drone over Minneapolis

#362

Post by 2019-nCoV »

r00fus wrote: post #54
beambot wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Where do you draw the distinction between a drone (presumably unarmed) vs a police helicopter?

Police helicopters don't have hellfire missiles as standard optional armament. Also police helicopters are operated by local/state forces. This is a federal agency which is way out of its jurisdiction.

The local forces failed (rather told to stand down) in Minneapolis. You really think they'd let the city just burn to the ground before bringing federal agencies?

Re: US customs and border protection is flying a surveillance drone over Minneapolis

#363

Post by mindslight »

_-david-_ wrote: post #345
mindslight wrote: post #293

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Please respond to the strongest plausible interpretation of what someone says, not a weaker one that's easier to criticize." The larger point is the dystopian dynamic of developing a store that is poised against its customers, especially as a testing ground. Technologically defended islands of wealth in the middle of seas of poverty. And the blame isn't even on Target specifically, but the system as a whole that is…

>"Please respond to the strongest plausible interpretation of what someone says, not a weaker one that's easier to criticize." What other interpretation am I to draw? The person I was responded to said Target was intentionally creating new policies to put people of color in jail. If anything the person I was responding to is the one that needs to take a more plausible explanation of what Target was doing. >The larger…

If you can't avoid reflexively jumping on phrases long enough to see the parallels to a common sci-fi theme, then there's no conversation to be had. All I can say is that if you want conservative thought to remain relevant, try applying it where it can be useful. Hint: the breakdown in law and order here started with the police department itself.

Re: US customs and border protection is flying a surveillance drone over Minneapolis

#364

Post by remexre »

koheripbal wrote: post #151
joshmn wrote: post #3

Native Minnesotan here — living in Minneapolis — that has lived on both coasts: With all that's happening the last few days, please don't generally associate Minnesotans with the violent riots that have captured the attention of everyone. The peacefulness of the protests and gatherings has been overshadowed by the violence. There are countless examples of Minnesotans standing up to those who choose to loot and destro…

> But burning down the precinct? Yeah, I can get behind that How is this not glorifying violence? Replace "precinct" with "school" or "church" , makes it more obvious. .. especially since the precinct was still occupied when it was attacked.

I assume if a school or church had a decades-long history of unjustifiedly killing civilians in a discriminatory way, it would be shut down by the justice system.

When the justice system itself has this dysfunction, however, that doesn't quite work.

Re: US customs and border protection is flying a surveillance drone over Minneapolis

#365

Post by Alupis »

Barrin92 wrote: post #352
Alupis wrote: post #248

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think we first need to determine what is upsetting about this, specifically. Is it that they are flying a UAV that was originally designed for military use? Or is it that they are flying a UAV period? What if it was a new UAV, designed just for law enforcement? No problems then? Presumably this UAV has no weapons on it, so I'm unsure what the problem could be unless we just flat oppose former military equipment bei…

>So, what specifically is it that we don't like about this situation? The ongoing militarization of state level police forces without the democratic consent of the governed for a start?

> democratic consent of the governed

Just playing devil's advocate - but this is democratically consented to.

Your elected politicians have specifically allowed the sale or transfer of retired military equipment to state and local police forces, for multiple reasons but the least-of-which was cost savings vs. scrapping all the prepaid equipment.

Similar, but admittedly not quite the same, to the sale of demilitarized Humvees, tanks and fighter jets to civilians. Or NASA owning and operating former US Navy F/A-18's, B-52's and more... war machines now repurposed for peaceful training and aeronautical research.

Re: US customs and border protection is flying a surveillance drone over Minneapolis

#367

Post by BEEdwards »

serf wrote: post #355
save_ferris wrote: post #341

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are a couple of major differences. My understanding is that helicopters can’t typically reach and maintain the altitude that unmanned drones can, making drones more effective to be used in less conspicuous ways. There’s also the difference in the baseline level of security between the two. Helicopters do go down from time to time, thus creating a human risk that isn’t present in drones. I feel that since drones…

>thus creating a human risk that isn’t present in drones. most unmanned drones used today have a far higher history of 'unintended forced landings' than most other military craft -- when you use planes that have a high risk of crash over metropolitan and suburban areas, the human risk multiplies . The US military has 'lost' about 400 'large' drones between 2001 and 2014. To put that 400 number into perspective, the U…

Oh No they might crash more! They totally wouldn't use them offensively because it's easier and less "risk".

Oh wait, we have nearly 20 years of the endless war that proves that they will.

https://www.aljazeera.com/programmes/specialseries/2015/07/l...

Re: US customs and border protection is flying a surveillance drone over Minneapolis

#368

Post by s3cur3 »

ortusdux wrote: post #163
beambot wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Where do you draw the distinction between a drone (presumably unarmed) vs a police helicopter?

Philly, 1985: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MOVE#1985_bombing "There was an armed standoff with police,[5] who lobbed tear gas canisters at the building. The MOVE members fired at them and a gunfight with semi-automatic and automatic firearms ensued.[32] Police went through over ten thousand rounds of ammunition before Commissioner Sambor ordered that the compound be bombed.[32] From a Pennsylvania State Police helic…

This is a really important distinction. The media really buried the lede calling it a Predator, which I associate with recon/surveillance only. The fact that it’s MQ-9, capable of carrying all manner of weaponry including 4 air-to-ground missiles and 2 laser-guided bombs (according to the Wikipedia page—who knows what this particular UAV is carrying) really changes my evaluation of how bad this is.

Re: US customs and border protection is flying a surveillance drone over Minneapolis

#369

Post by Alupis »

FireBeyond wrote: post #353
Alupis wrote: post #327

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What specifically do you think this CBP UAV is equipped with that should preclude it from flying over a city? Cameras?

What part of _Customs and Border Protection_ do you think should NOT preclude it from monitoring domestic unrest 300 miles from the nearest border?

The UAV is owned by CBP, and is effectively loaned to local police. Why is that a problem?

We can't allow agencies to borrow equipment and specialists? They should all buy their own, at tax payer's expense?

Would you feel any different if this UAV had been bought by local law enforcement instead of borrowed? If so, why?

Re: US customs and border protection is flying a surveillance drone over Minneapolis

#370

Post by jcims »

FireBeyond wrote: post #353
Alupis wrote: post #327

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What specifically do you think this CBP UAV is equipped with that should preclude it from flying over a city? Cameras?

What part of _Customs and Border Protection_ do you think should NOT preclude it from monitoring domestic unrest 300 miles from the nearest border?

To me it seems quite likely that this is on loan to or being flown on behalf another agency.
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