This is almost quaint compared to what Persistent Surveillance Systems is doing over Baltimore right now.
https://www.bizjournals.com/baltimore/news/2020/04/30/aerial...
US customs and border protection is flying a surveillance drone over Minneapolis
271–280 of 456 posts
Re: US customs and border protection is flying a surveillance drone over Minneapolis
#272Earlier quoted context omitted.
It's not a huge leap from "we have systemic problems" to "both sides are equally to blame", and the latter is too often used as an excuse for bad behavior.
Remember, Obama order the extrajudicial killing of an American because he was a member of a terrorist organization. Terrorism is a crime in the United States. Hence there should have been an attempt to arrest.
I strongly disagree with drone striking, but arresting someone in an effectively hostile territory isn't a simple or safe job. Your only hope there is that he enters an airport, or international waters.
Re: US customs and border protection is flying a surveillance drone over Minneapolis
#273Earlier quoted context omitted.
Surely, you aren't comparing mass murder, likely an international crime, to spray painting a building or stealing a TV? Property != people. People > property. Period. Nothing else to consider. Additionally, it's fairly common for security forces to instigate criminal behavior during protests in order to justify the extreme measures they use to suppress those protests.
> ...spray painting a building or stealing a TV? I'm not going to step into what is clearly an emotional argument for you, but I will say that downplaying what's going on in Minneapolis does not lend you any credibility. Social housing units, and hundreds of locally owned businesses have been rubbled and torched; and retailers have watched basically all of their inventory walk out the door (last time they bother sett…
I assume the business owner had insurance? Bottles and buildings can be replaced.
It’s not exactly like the bar was going to be profitable in the next 6 months anyways considering the pandemic, it’s probably a blessing in disguise that may save him from bankruptcy, who knows?
He has a job still, he’s luckier than a lot of people.
Re: US customs and border protection is flying a surveillance drone over Minneapolis
#274Earlier quoted context omitted.
The drone is also controlled remotely and thus has more of a disconnect between the “pilot” and the subject. The police helicopter has a human element to/in it so the pilot would feel more responsibility for the destruction they caused if it were right in front of their eyes.
This is unsupported by evidence. Drone operators have a high incidence of PTSD. > Studies have found similar levels of depression and PTSD among drone pilots working behind a bank of computers as among military personnel deployed to the battlefield. https://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/nov/18/life-as-a-dron...
This is for ATTACK drones, where they are actually killing people or coordinating fire.
We are talking here about SURVEILLANCE drones.
Re: US customs and border protection is flying a surveillance drone over Minneapolis
#275I don't really see the issue here with a surveillance drone to help keep the peace. I don't really care if it's "military technology" or not. Look, what happened was absolutely awful. People have a right to protest - and should, but peacefully. Riots, looting, burning buildings? Sorry, that's going to far. If the government starts firing rockets at people from that drone - well that's another story. But that is clear…
Well this is what we get for not listening. If your family and friends were being executed constantly you'd give up and rage too. Everyone has a breaking point - republicans were about to riot over wearing a mask to protect their families; these people are rioting over being murdered and ignored. Disproportionate and inconsistent application are also a huge issue here - where were the drones when domestic terrorists…
If someone is unhappy about not being listened to and their response is to burn down half a neighborhood in my city maybe there was a good reason we weren’t listening to everything they had to say. They don’t seem interested in reasoning, only in taking what they want by force.
The armed protesters in Michigan were being jackasses but afaik they didn’t start looting or committing arson (or even hurt anyone for that matter). There is no equivalence here, it’s just as much a bullshit “both sides” argument as the one trump made three years ago.
Re: US customs and border protection is flying a surveillance drone over Minneapolis
#276Earlier quoted context omitted.
Where do you draw the distinction between a drone (presumably unarmed) vs a police helicopter?
I think we first need to determine what is upsetting about this, specifically. Is it that they are flying a UAV that was originally designed for military use? Or is it that they are flying a UAV period? What if it was a new UAV, designed just for law enforcement? No problems then? Presumably this UAV has no weapons on it, so I'm unsure what the problem could be unless we just flat oppose former military equipment bei…
As I said in another comment, the importance of the change doesn't lie in a narrow look at the changed component. It is formally about the overall balance of rights, responsibilities of citizens and police/military[1], and less formally about trust between the two and the overall climate we want to live in, as a country.
If you make a given police enforcement mechanism cheaper, it will be used more. What does that do to your average person's sense of privacy/fear/trust? What kind of relationship do we want to have between citizens[2] and its government?
[1] That line is being blurred.
[2] Not subjects
Re: US customs and border protection is flying a surveillance drone over Minneapolis
#277Earlier quoted context omitted.
People shouldn't be surveilled by the government without probable cause.
I'm 100% in favor of the protestors' cause, but if you want probable cause, burning down a police station, housing unit, and nearby businesses certainly qualifies.
And what about all the other people caught in the dragnet? Most of whom presumably did nothing. These people have no idea if they are also being surveilled. I mean, who knows what else the government is doing "while they're there."
There are smaller aerial drones that could be used, which would capture the same relevant footage, without the potentially miles-wide dragnet. That's my main objection here: innocent people shouldn't have to give up their rights because the government can justify it. A good justice system would do their best get the minimum amount of information necessary, in order to protect the innocent.
Re: US customs and border protection is flying a surveillance drone over Minneapolis
#278Native Minnesotan here — living in Minneapolis — that has lived on both coasts: With all that's happening the last few days, please don't generally associate Minnesotans with the violent riots that have captured the attention of everyone. The peacefulness of the protests and gatherings has been overshadowed by the violence. There are countless examples of Minnesotans standing up to those who choose to loot and destro…
[deleted]
Re: US customs and border protection is flying a surveillance drone over Minneapolis
#279Earlier quoted context omitted.
Yes, because a police helicopter is different for two reasons: (1) it’s not operated by CBP (who have no jurisdiction here), and (2) a police helicopter doesn’t have Hellfire missile bays.
Putting aside the CBP issue (fair point, agreed, that's weird), it's not like police helicopters haven't been used for pretty bad things in the past - e.g. when Philadelphia firebombed it's citizens in the 80s. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MOVE
Such a weird way of putting police reaper drones into context.
Re: US customs and border protection is flying a surveillance drone over Minneapolis
#280Earlier quoted context omitted.
> ...spray painting a building or stealing a TV? I'm not going to step into what is clearly an emotional argument for you, but I will say that downplaying what's going on in Minneapolis does not lend you any credibility. Social housing units, and hundreds of locally owned businesses have been rubbled and torched; and retailers have watched basically all of their inventory walk out the door (last time they bother sett…
I am not downplaying anything and your points don't dispute my major argument of people are more important property. The sports bar, inventory, etc can be replaced. Why should locals care about those things when there's a real, non-zero chance their family and friends might be killed arbitrarily? Personally, I'd rather have my kids and wife than a Target.
Why do you think it’s ok for rioters to destroy the property of businesses not involved with the death of George Floyd?