US customs and border protection is flying a surveillance drone over Minneapolis • Hacker News Board

Re: US customs and border protection is flying a surveillance drone over Minneapolis

#41

Post by Thriptic » Fri, May 29, 2020, 6:40 PM UTC

king_magic wrote: post #7

I don't really see the issue here with a surveillance drone to help keep the peace. I don't really care if it's "military technology" or not. Look, what happened was absolutely awful. People have a right to protest - and should, but peacefully. Riots, looting, burning buildings? Sorry, that's going to far. If the government starts firing rockets at people from that drone - well that's another story. But that is clear…

The issue is there is no transparency about what is happening with the data that is being collected.

Re: US customs and border protection is flying a surveillance drone over Minneapolis

#42

Post by nickff » Fri, May 29, 2020, 6:40 PM UTC

coldpie wrote: post #33

chasd00 wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

people do, indeed, riot and destroy things to steal and loot. That's the point. Notice it's not the police station being burned down.

Friend, you have no idea what you are talking about. Please do as the other guy said and shut up and listen for five minutes. Protesters took over the precinct station that the murderers worked at and burned it to the ground last night. https://kstp.com/news/protests-continue-in-twin-cities-st-pa...

Do you think that telling someone to "shut up and listen for five minutes" is an effective way to communicate your message? How would you respond to such a lead-in?

Re: US customs and border protection is flying a surveillance drone over Minneapolis

#43

Post by codys » Fri, May 29, 2020, 6:41 PM UTC

king_magic wrote: post #28

kec wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Predator drones can carry multiple air to ground missiles and guided bombs. This is the same model of drone which is used for drone strikes in the Middle East. There is no reasonable reason for a domestic civilian agency to own or use these drones over US soil vs models which are incapable of carrying armament.

I'm aware of that, but it's extremely, extremely unlikely that this drone is carrying any sort of missiles. I can't prove that for certain, but let's be realistic here. The government could in theory drive a ballistic missile launcher hidden in an 18-wheeler into any major US city - should we not allow trucks on the road?

> should we not allow trucks on the road?

Perhaps not ones designed for carrying ballistic missiles.

Though this still isn't a perfect comparison because it ignores the fact that drone usage can be targeted to individuals, which is a factor that makes it more dangerous in our context of homeland operations.

Re: US customs and border protection is flying a surveillance drone over Minneapolis

#44

Post by petee » Fri, May 29, 2020, 6:41 PM UTC

king_magic wrote: post #34

petee wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well this is what we get for not listening. If your family and friends were being executed constantly you'd give up and rage too. Everyone has a breaking point - republicans were about to riot over wearing a mask to protect their families; these people are rioting over being murdered and ignored. Disproportionate and inconsistent application are also a huge issue here - where were the drones when domestic terrorists…

There are folks who are legitimately angry and are expressing that peacefully. And then there are people torching businesses, police stations and cars. Do you not think there is any sort of reasonable line being crossed here? I don't think it's fair to say it's inconsistent use when the domestic terrorists (yes, I agree with that portrayal) took over the statehouse. They were all in the statehouse, or in the immediat…

No, they are being murdered, how would you respond? We can't possibly understand the anger these people feel. If an innocent man is murdered by police, and they riot as a result, we need to start listening.

As for the domestic terrorists, they were all out and about the city. Either way, a group of people with guns you watch, how could you know where they'd go next, or what they'd do. And the core fact is, if those white people were pepper sprayed by cops in the same fashion, they'd be rioting too.

Edit: I should emphasize that I don't condone torching random businesses, what I am saying is that as a white person, thats not my opinion to have in this discussion since its anger boiled over. Some people just had enough, and I don't blame them. We don't get to decide their form of outrage.

Re: US customs and border protection is flying a surveillance drone over Minneapolis

#45

Post by pwillia7 » Fri, May 29, 2020, 6:41 PM UTC

chasd00 wrote: post #24

daeken wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> With all that's happening the last few days, please don't associate Minnesotans with the riots that have captured the attention of everyone. I understand what you're going for, but this is a bad approach. People aren't rioting because they want to destroy things, they're rioting because they don't feel like they're being heard. What you're saying here reads as "don't listen to them, they don't represent us" which i…

people do, indeed, riot and destroy things to steal and loot. That's the point. Notice it's not the police station being burned down.

They literally burned down a police precinct though, so I'm afraid you're incorrect.

https://minnesota.cbslocal.com/2020/05/29/protesters-take-mi...

Re: US customs and border protection is flying a surveillance drone over Minneapolis

#46

Post by dvdhnt » Fri, May 29, 2020, 6:41 PM UTC

wafn wrote: post #35

Pretty sure there are laws against mass arson, looting, rioting, vandalism, etc. so if the people can't follow laws why should the government?

Surely, you aren't comparing mass murder, likely an international crime, to spray painting a building or stealing a TV?

Property != people. People > property. Period. Nothing else to consider.

Additionally, it's fairly common for security forces to instigate criminal behavior during protests in order to justify the extreme measures they use to suppress those protests.

Re: US customs and border protection is flying a surveillance drone over Minneapolis

#47

Post by corrupt_measure » Fri, May 29, 2020, 6:41 PM UTC

coldpie wrote: post #33

chasd00 wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

people do, indeed, riot and destroy things to steal and loot. That's the point. Notice it's not the police station being burned down.

Friend, you have no idea what you are talking about. Please do as the other guy said and shut up and listen for five minutes. Protesters took over the precinct station that the murderers worked at and burned it to the ground last night. https://kstp.com/news/protests-continue-in-twin-cities-st-pa...

Which was a terrible thing to because it harms the community and their own cause as it makes them look like thugs and villains.

And there have indeed been many taking advantage of the situation to steak and cause chaos for chaos' sake.

Re: US customs and border protection is flying a surveillance drone over Minneapolis

#48

Post by king_magic » Fri, May 29, 2020, 6:42 PM UTC

colejohnson66 wrote: post #39

king_magic wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm aware of that, but it's extremely, extremely unlikely that this drone is carrying any sort of missiles. I can't prove that for certain, but let's be realistic here. The government could in theory drive a ballistic missile launcher hidden in an 18-wheeler into any major US city - should we not allow trucks on the road?

That’s a false equivalence. The difference with your truck argument is that this air vehicle is specifically designed to monitor and shoot missiles at targets (“extrajudicial killings” is the phrase used). A truck carrying a missile launcher is different because trucks weren’t created will the express purpose of carrying missile launchers.

Except there's simply no way (short of the US falling into a total dystopian future) that someone is going to launch a missile on the Mall of America this week from this drone. Again - let's be realistic here.

Re: US customs and border protection is flying a surveillance drone over Minneapolis

#49

Post by [deleted] » Fri, May 29, 2020, 6:42 PM UTC

daeken wrote: post #9

joshmn wrote: post #3

Native Minnesotan here — living in Minneapolis — that has lived on both coasts: With all that's happening the last few days, please don't generally associate Minnesotans with the violent riots that have captured the attention of everyone. The peacefulness of the protests and gatherings has been overshadowed by the violence. There are countless examples of Minnesotans standing up to those who choose to loot and destro…

> With all that's happening the last few days, please don't associate Minnesotans with the riots that have captured the attention of everyone. I understand what you're going for, but this is a bad approach. People aren't rioting because they want to destroy things, they're rioting because they don't feel like they're being heard. What you're saying here reads as "don't listen to them, they don't represent us" which i…

[deleted]

Re: US customs and border protection is flying a surveillance drone over Minneapolis

#50

Post by kec » Fri, May 29, 2020, 6:42 PM UTC

king_magic wrote: post #28

kec wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Predator drones can carry multiple air to ground missiles and guided bombs. This is the same model of drone which is used for drone strikes in the Middle East. There is no reasonable reason for a domestic civilian agency to own or use these drones over US soil vs models which are incapable of carrying armament.

I'm aware of that, but it's extremely, extremely unlikely that this drone is carrying any sort of missiles. I can't prove that for certain, but let's be realistic here. The government could in theory drive a ballistic missile launcher hidden in an 18-wheeler into any major US city - should we not allow trucks on the road?

Pointing a gun at someone is a threat even if you say it's unloaded. The US government should not be threatening its citizens.

> The government could in theory drive a ballistic missile launcher hidden in an 18-wheeler into any major US city - should we not allow trucks on the road?

This is a straw man, the Predator is a weapons platform, nothing is being hidden here.