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Mosquitoes kill more than 700k people every year (2017)

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Re: Mosquitoes kill more than 700k people every year (2017)

#141

Post by jki275 »

3pt14159 wrote: post #94
yyyk wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The issue is very well studied - Mosquitoes are an invading species in most areas; Only a few subspecies are harmful to humans, and they'll be replaced by similar mosquitoes that aren't. Besides, there's a very wide gap between what the West is and was willing to do when an infectious disease happens. When Malaria hit the West, we drained entire swamps (and their ecosystems) without a second though. When corona hits,…

Destroying every member of a specific species is ridiculous. In the next couple decades we'll solve the majority of the illnesses that these things cause and we can roll out the cures around the world without the permanent damage to these ecosystems. I also lived for a time as a child in Manitoba and my grandfather got live altering malaria, so I don't share any love for these insects but we're part of something bigg…

That's a nice theory, and I hope it happens, but hope is never a course of action, especially when we're talking about total hypothetical with no basis in fact at all.

Re: Mosquitoes kill more than 700k people every year (2017)

#142

Post by throwanem »

jki275 wrote: post #140
throwanem wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The point you're ignoring in your haste to indict everyone you don't like - due to what I suspect to be your complete ignorance of, or at least disinterest in, the millions of dollars annually spent on research aimed at eradicating malaria worldwide by the very same "West" for which you cannot find enough opprobrium - is that we can't know what consequences will come of these kinds of broad, blunt methods. Nobody exp…

Just for the record, DDT didn't actually do any of that, and your histrionics about pesticides aren't supported by evidence either. The West murdered millions of third world children when we banned DDT.

A series of extraordinary claims, for which you don't care to provide any support whatsoever. Okay.

I did, with a little effort, find a single source [1] for your "DDT didn't harm birds" claim. Of course, he's [2] also a climate denier, a conspiracy theorist, and a lobbyist for companies whose financial interests are coincidentally in total alignment with his "scientific" advocacy. But hey, if that's the company you want to keep, don't let me dissuade you.

[1] http://archive.is/UTyoT#selection-2159.0-2156.3

[2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steven_Milloy

Re: Mosquitoes kill more than 700k people every year (2017)

#143

Post by throwanem »

yyyk wrote: post #139
throwanem wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The point you're ignoring in your haste to indict everyone you don't like - due to what I suspect to be your complete ignorance of, or at least disinterest in, the millions of dollars annually spent on research aimed at eradicating malaria worldwide by the very same "West" for which you cannot find enough opprobrium - is that we can't know what consequences will come of these kinds of broad, blunt methods. Nobody exp…

I'm not indicting the entire West. I'm indicting certain people in the West that post silly almost conspiracy style stuff against obvious solutions to a deadly disease. There's an obvious balance here, and it's not on the 'we don't know how but something might happen' side. How about we all stop posting on HN? After all, posting might change magnetic fields which might change a butterfly's path which could cause a de…

Well, you're making not posting on HN any more look like an appealing option, I'll give you that much.

Re: Mosquitoes kill more than 700k people every year (2017)

#144

Post by jacobr1 »

throwanem wrote: post #132
yyyk wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's already a "colony collapse disorder", and nobody does anything. But when it comes to the Third World, suddenly we have to do nothing because something might happen (nobody even has a mechanism. We're supposed to sacrifice millions for delusions). This is unacceptable. Fortunately, there are enough good people in the world to ignore the callous.

The point you're ignoring in your haste to indict everyone you don't like - due to what I suspect to be your complete ignorance of, or at least disinterest in, the millions of dollars annually spent on research aimed at eradicating malaria worldwide by the very same "West" for which you cannot find enough opprobrium - is that we can't know what consequences will come of these kinds of broad, blunt methods. Nobody exp…

I think the risk equation being questioned is different. Today, right now, with a better understanding of the risks for DDT, would it be better to have a campaign to eradicate malaria in sub-saharan Africa with tools like DDT? There would be ecological damage, both anticipatable and unknown. And that would have second and third-order detrimental impacts. But we'd also have a huge gain. Would it be worth it? Right now it is hard to have that kind of discussion.

Another related example: is it better to have the consequences of polluted cities powered with unclean coal, than to have a less developed country with fewer resources to spend on things like healthcare. Which on net is better? I certainly don't know, but the tradeoffs are real.

Re: Mosquitoes kill more than 700k people every year (2017)

#145

Post by jki275 »

kerkeslager wrote: post #8
madengr wrote: post #2

Hydroxychloroquine has been used as a malaria preventative for 60 years. Now it is suddenly unsafe?

Hydroxychloroquine has always been unsafe. It's just that in some situations, the risk of malaria is more unsafe.

it's taken by millions worldwide all the time, and not just for Malaria.

It's "unsafe" in the same way that any medicine if misused is unsafe -- but not more so than most others.

Re: Mosquitoes kill more than 700k people every year (2017)

#146

Post by Koshkin »

sarabande wrote: post #130
Koshkin wrote: post #18

To put this in a perspective, 1 Mosquito 1,000,000 2 Human 475,000 3 Snake 50,000 4 Dog 25,000 5 Tsetse Fly 10,000 6 Assassin Bug 10,000 7 Freshwater Snail 10,000 8 Ascaris Roundworm 2,500 9 Tapeworm 2,000 10 Crocodile 1,000 11 Hippopotamus 500 12 Elephant 100 13 Lion 100 14 Wolf 10 15 Shark 10 https://www.worldatlas.com/articles/the-animals-that-kill-mo...

Off topic, but how did you make that beautifully formatted table?

Insert two spaces at the beginning of each line.

Re: Mosquitoes kill more than 700k people every year (2017)

#147

Post by jacobr1 »

throwanem wrote: post #135
JoeAltmaier wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

...and you read the part about mosquitoes being invasive species, right? So removing them improves almost every ecosystem they're found in.

You read the part about it being a specific couple of species, right? So unless somebody comes up with a brilliant plan that targets specifically those species, and only in the parts of the world where they're not native, and nothing else , we're still risking the same kind of consequences as with DDT, or neonicotinoids. The kind we can't predict in advance are going to fuck us over. I mean, don't get me wrong, I lov…

The one plan we do have that targets a specific species is the spread of neutered males. We've done this successfully in the past with screw-worm.

Re: Mosquitoes kill more than 700k people every year (2017)

#148

Post by jki275 »

jointpdf wrote: post #35
ping_pong wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wrong. Hydroxychloroquine is safer than acetaminophen. Chloroquine has much higher side effects, but they different drugs, in the same family.

Are you going to cite any actual evidence for that bold claim? Here, like this: > We were unable to confirm a benefit of hydroxychloroquine or chloroquine, when used alone or with a macrolide, on in-hospital outcomes for COVID-19. Each of these drug regimens was associated with decreased in-hospital survival and an increased frequency of ventricular arrhythmias when used for treatment of COVID-19. https://www.thelanc…

https://statmodeling.stat.columbia.edu/2020/05/25/this-contr...

Re: Mosquitoes kill more than 700k people every year (2017)

#149

Post by throwanem »

jacobr1 wrote: post #147
throwanem wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You read the part about it being a specific couple of species, right? So unless somebody comes up with a brilliant plan that targets specifically those species, and only in the parts of the world where they're not native, and nothing else , we're still risking the same kind of consequences as with DDT, or neonicotinoids. The kind we can't predict in advance are going to fuck us over. I mean, don't get me wrong, I lov…

The one plan we do have that targets a specific species is the spread of neutered males. We've done this successfully in the past with screw-worm.

The sterile-insect technique does work, but it's not going to achieve the kind of eradication people in here are talking about. Wild-eyed ideas about mass pesticide application and CRISPR gene drives are more the sort of thing that actually concern me, or would if I thought anyone talking about them was anywhere near the required levers of power to actually make them happen. As it is, I just wish people had enough sense of history to understand the import, although I suppose in the age of alternative facts that's far more than can reasonably be expected.

Re: Mosquitoes kill more than 700k people every year (2017)

#150

Post by jki275 »

throwanem wrote: post #142
jki275 wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just for the record, DDT didn't actually do any of that, and your histrionics about pesticides aren't supported by evidence either. The West murdered millions of third world children when we banned DDT.

A series of extraordinary claims, for which you don't care to provide any support whatsoever. Okay. I did, with a little effort, find a single source [1] for your "DDT didn't harm birds" claim. Of course, he's [2] also a climate denier, a conspiracy theorist, and a lobbyist for companies whose financial interests are coincidentally in total alignment with his "scientific" advocacy. But hey, if that's the company you…

You didn't look very hard:

https://www.thenewatlantis.com/publications/the-truth-about-...

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