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Mosquitoes kill more than 700k people every year (2017)

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Re: Mosquitoes kill more than 700k people every year (2017)

#131

Post by ping_pong »

kerkeslager wrote: post #118
ping_pong wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, so what you said didn't contradict anything I said. Hydroxycloroquine is safer than acetaminophen which is available openly at doses that can destroy the liver. Here is what the CDC says about hydroxychloroquine. To call it "unsafe" is ridiculous and spreading misinformation. Hydroxychloroquine is a relatively well tolerated medicine. The most common adverse reactions reported are stomach pain, nausea, vomiting,…

> Yes, so what you said didn't contradict anything I said. Hydroxycloroquine is safer than acetaminophen which is available openly at doses that can destroy the liver. My point is, that even if it's safer than acetaminophen (which is not in evidence) that's doesn't mean it's safe . Which is a direct contradiction to your glib, "Wrong."

The CDC says "Hydroxychloroquine is a relatively well tolerated medicine." So, unless you know something more than the CDC, it sounds safe to me. That would absolutely make what you're saying "wrong", and you're spreading misinformation.

Re: Mosquitoes kill more than 700k people every year (2017)

#132

Post by throwanem »

yyyk wrote: post #125
throwanem wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"The West" is doing DDT all over again. This time it's neonicotinoids, and just like with DDT, they're being pushed by ag conglomerates as a way to increase profits, with a side of "cigarettes give you healthy skin!" style propaganda to make them look innocent. Last time, we "merely" almost wiped out a whole class of apex predators and caused a collection of trophic cascades. This time, with a menu of unintended cons…

There's already a "colony collapse disorder", and nobody does anything. But when it comes to the Third World, suddenly we have to do nothing because something might happen (nobody even has a mechanism. We're supposed to sacrifice millions for delusions). This is unacceptable. Fortunately, there are enough good people in the world to ignore the callous.

The point you're ignoring in your haste to indict everyone you don't like - due to what I suspect to be your complete ignorance of, or at least disinterest in, the millions of dollars annually spent on research aimed at eradicating malaria worldwide by the very same "West" for which you cannot find enough opprobrium - is that we can't know what consequences will come of these kinds of broad, blunt methods.

Nobody expected DDT to drive large birds of prey nearly to extinction. Nobody expected neonicotinoids to concentrate in ecosystems and have a very similar effect on the insects we depend on to pollinate our food crops. It's not about predicting that terrible things will happen. It's that we aren't able to make sure terrible things won't. Neonicotinoids already have us at non-negligible risk of worldwide famine through agricultural collapse as a result of consequences we were too stupid and too hubristic to predict. How many millions do you think that will kill if it happens?

Because that's the kind of risk you're proposing - and, just as with that famine, it's a risk that will hit worst on the most vulnerable, least privileged people in the world. You know? The same ones in whose supposed defense you're making such a performative display of contempt?

Re: Mosquitoes kill more than 700k people every year (2017)

#133

Post by [deleted] »

slg wrote: post #101
ravenstine wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's kind of like saying that it's not the shark that kills people but the blood loss.

You missed my point. I am asking for consistency in the metrics. We get malaria from a parasite that is spread by mosquitoes. We get tuberculosis from a bacteria that is spread by humans. TB kills more than three times as many people every year as malaria. Why is malaria counted as a death caused by mosquitoes but TB isn't a death caused by humans? Either you count both or you count neither.

[deleted]

Re: Mosquitoes kill more than 700k people every year (2017)

#134

Post by elwell »

Koshkin wrote: post #18

To put this in a perspective, 1 Mosquito 1,000,000 2 Human 475,000 3 Snake 50,000 4 Dog 25,000 5 Tsetse Fly 10,000 6 Assassin Bug 10,000 7 Freshwater Snail 10,000 8 Ascaris Roundworm 2,500 9 Tapeworm 2,000 10 Crocodile 1,000 11 Hippopotamus 500 12 Elephant 100 13 Lion 100 14 Wolf 10 15 Shark 10 https://www.worldatlas.com/articles/the-animals-that-kill-mo...

Why isn't "Plasmodium parasites" on this list?

Re: Mosquitoes kill more than 700k people every year (2017)

#135

Post by throwanem »

JoeAltmaier wrote: post #123
throwanem wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> %$#@! the ecosystem* . People are more important. You do know humans need a functioning ecology in order to survive, right?

...and you read the part about mosquitoes being invasive species, right? So removing them improves almost every ecosystem they're found in.

You read the part about it being a specific couple of species, right? So unless somebody comes up with a brilliant plan that targets specifically those species, and only in the parts of the world where they're not native, and nothing else, we're still risking the same kind of consequences as with DDT, or neonicotinoids. The kind we can't predict in advance are going to fuck us over.

I mean, don't get me wrong, I love the optimism inherent in a perspective on the world that says there's necessarily a technological solution to everything, and more than that, one that modern-day humans are certainly smart enough to find. I just wish it didn't so lend itself to hubris.

Re: Mosquitoes kill more than 700k people every year (2017)

#136

Post by asdfasgasdgasdg »

slg wrote: post #55
Koshkin wrote: post #18

To put this in a perspective, 1 Mosquito 1,000,000 2 Human 475,000 3 Snake 50,000 4 Dog 25,000 5 Tsetse Fly 10,000 6 Assassin Bug 10,000 7 Freshwater Snail 10,000 8 Ascaris Roundworm 2,500 9 Tapeworm 2,000 10 Crocodile 1,000 11 Hippopotamus 500 12 Elephant 100 13 Lion 100 14 Wolf 10 15 Shark 10 https://www.worldatlas.com/articles/the-animals-that-kill-mo...

These numbers are weird. Why do we count mosquito-borne diseases under mosquitoes but don't put communicable diseases under the tally for humans? It is especially curious considering mosquitoes don't know any better while humans have both the knowledge and ability to dampen how disease spreads through our population.

For one thing, we could conceivably get rid of the mosquitoes if the problem to solve is making life better for humans. However, getting rid of humans to make life better for humans rather defeats the purpose.

Re: Mosquitoes kill more than 700k people every year (2017)

#137

Post by jacobr1 »

JoeAltmaier wrote: post #122
cameronfraser wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Poor sharks, they get one of the worst raps for how little damage they do to humans. I'm surprised to see dogs so high up on that list.

I'm thinking, that data is more of a heat-map of interactions. Any human interaction with a shark in its environment, shark wins. So as a per-capita, they might be near 100%?

I'm not sure. Plenty of people swim in waters where sharks are regularly observed. And still the attacks are low. And further, with many attacks, I think in particular great-whites, they back off after the first bite, which allows for much greater survivability. So the ratio of "shark contact" to "sharks win" is probably low. And if you also add in fishing for sharks (such as for fins) humans probably kill a lot more sharks than the other way around.

Re: Mosquitoes kill more than 700k people every year (2017)

#138

Post by cryptoquick »

7leafer wrote: post #114
clairity wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

i'm happy to pay that (tiny) cost if it makes even one person stop and question the narrative honestly for even a second.

So am I, my friend.

Your pushback against the HN downvoter cowards, especially when you've questioned the status quo and planted a seed of dissent against the grain, is quite appreciated by this particular HN user.

Honestly, I find the dialogue here toxic and coarse, and I'm sure I'm a part of that, too. Ideally I'd just delete my account, and never come back... But HN won't allow me to delete my account, so, in spite, I'll keep coming back.

Re: Mosquitoes kill more than 700k people every year (2017)

#139

Post by yyyk »

throwanem wrote: post #132
yyyk wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's already a "colony collapse disorder", and nobody does anything. But when it comes to the Third World, suddenly we have to do nothing because something might happen (nobody even has a mechanism. We're supposed to sacrifice millions for delusions). This is unacceptable. Fortunately, there are enough good people in the world to ignore the callous.

The point you're ignoring in your haste to indict everyone you don't like - due to what I suspect to be your complete ignorance of, or at least disinterest in, the millions of dollars annually spent on research aimed at eradicating malaria worldwide by the very same "West" for which you cannot find enough opprobrium - is that we can't know what consequences will come of these kinds of broad, blunt methods. Nobody exp…

I'm not indicting the entire West. I'm indicting certain people in the West that post silly almost conspiracy style stuff against obvious solutions to a deadly disease. There's an obvious balance here, and it's not on the 'we don't know how but something might happen' side. How about we all stop posting on HN? After all, posting might change magnetic fields which might change a butterfly's path which could cause a deadly hurricane?

P.S. We knew even at the time DDT was poisonous to life, and that draining swamps kills ecosystems. What changed wasn't so much our knowledge, but the situation (the West had gotten rid of many deadly diseases by that time, mosquitoes had started to develop resistance).

Re: Mosquitoes kill more than 700k people every year (2017)

#140

Post by jki275 »

throwanem wrote: post #132
yyyk wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's already a "colony collapse disorder", and nobody does anything. But when it comes to the Third World, suddenly we have to do nothing because something might happen (nobody even has a mechanism. We're supposed to sacrifice millions for delusions). This is unacceptable. Fortunately, there are enough good people in the world to ignore the callous.

The point you're ignoring in your haste to indict everyone you don't like - due to what I suspect to be your complete ignorance of, or at least disinterest in, the millions of dollars annually spent on research aimed at eradicating malaria worldwide by the very same "West" for which you cannot find enough opprobrium - is that we can't know what consequences will come of these kinds of broad, blunt methods. Nobody exp…

Just for the record, DDT didn't actually do any of that, and your histrionics about pesticides aren't supported by evidence either.

The West murdered millions of third world children when we banned DDT.

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