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US customs and border protection is flying a surveillance drone over Minneapolis

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Re: US customs and border protection is flying a surveillance drone over Minneapolis

#181

Post by jandrese »

bdesbrisay wrote: post #94
colejohnson66 wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One is purposefully designed to surveil and kill (the Predator drone), while the other has a variety of uses. That’s where I draw the line: what was the purpose of creating it?

The drone is also controlled remotely and thus has more of a disconnect between the “pilot” and the subject. The police helicopter has a human element to/in it so the pilot would feel more responsibility for the destruction they caused if it were right in front of their eyes.

This seems speculative to me. Helicopter pilots are already hundreds or thousands of feet away from the action, they're not looking people directly in the eyes.

Re: US customs and border protection is flying a surveillance drone over Minneapolis

#183

Post by microcolonel »

dvdhnt wrote: post #46
wafn wrote: post #35

Pretty sure there are laws against mass arson, looting, rioting, vandalism, etc. so if the people can't follow laws why should the government?

Surely, you aren't comparing mass murder, likely an international crime, to spray painting a building or stealing a TV? Property != people. People > property. Period. Nothing else to consider. Additionally, it's fairly common for security forces to instigate criminal behavior during protests in order to justify the extreme measures they use to suppress those protests.

> ...spray painting a building or stealing a TV?

I'm not going to step into what is clearly an emotional argument for you, but I will say that downplaying what's going on in Minneapolis does not lend you any credibility. Social housing units, and hundreds of locally owned businesses have been rubbled and torched; and retailers have watched basically all of their inventory walk out the door (last time they bother setting up shop in this powder keg, seems Target was prettymuch expecting this to happen eventually).

One prominent case of this is Scores Sports Bar; there's video of the owner standing there powerless and crying, watching common crooks walk out with his life savings, all he earned working as a firefighter. You can see it set in on him when they come in right in front of him and start busting open the safe. After all this, he went to work the next day, at his day job as a firefighter, where he got a call that the bar had been torched to the ground. Now there's a GoFundMe, but he's never getting that time back.

So don't downplay what the rioters have done there, there are active warzones which are less rubbled and arsoned than this.

Re: US customs and border protection is flying a surveillance drone over Minneapolis

#184

Post by remarkEon »

testbot123 wrote: post #180
remarkEon wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Another fellow Minnesotan here and former Minneapolis resident (used to live a mile away from Hiawatha and Lake back in the day). >Characterizing what is happening as an edge case is a huge mistake. People do not spontaneously start protesting with so much anger if it hasn't built up over so long. These protests are at least partly drummed up by out of state agitators, and are implicitly condoned by a feckless and we…

"I must confess that over the past few years I have been gravely disappointed with the white moderate. I have almost reached the regrettable conclusion that the Negro’s great stumbling block in his stride toward freedom is not the White Citizen’s Counciler or the Ku Klux Klanner, but the white moderate, who is more devoted to “order” than to justice; who prefers a negative peace which is the absence of tension to a p…

Ah, yes, I'm in the wrong here because I hope for order and not chaos. And someone will pull an MLK quote out of a hat to say as much.

Re: US customs and border protection is flying a surveillance drone over Minneapolis

#185

Post by virmundi »

Analemma_ wrote: post #177
meragrin_ wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In all probability, union rules stand in the way of making any quick arrests. Their hands are tied. It is better for them to appear slow and do things by the book than try to appease the irrational mob. They'll eventually get to where the mob wants to go rather than ending up with the cops "winning" in some way due violations of union rules and procedures.

Gosh, at my next union meeting I should remember to ask for barriers to being arrested. That's a thing, right?

It is for cops. IA has to proceed with an investigation following specific rules. Like if the cop is questioned without a union rep that evidence might get tossed.

Re: US customs and border protection is flying a surveillance drone over Minneapolis

#186

Post by JoeAltmaier »

testbot123 wrote: post #180
remarkEon wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Another fellow Minnesotan here and former Minneapolis resident (used to live a mile away from Hiawatha and Lake back in the day). >Characterizing what is happening as an edge case is a huge mistake. People do not spontaneously start protesting with so much anger if it hasn't built up over so long. These protests are at least partly drummed up by out of state agitators, and are implicitly condoned by a feckless and we…

"I must confess that over the past few years I have been gravely disappointed with the white moderate. I have almost reached the regrettable conclusion that the Negro’s great stumbling block in his stride toward freedom is not the White Citizen’s Counciler or the Ku Klux Klanner, but the white moderate, who is more devoted to “order” than to justice; who prefers a negative peace which is the absence of tension to a p…

MLK wasn't talking about rioting.

Re: US customs and border protection is flying a surveillance drone over Minneapolis

#187

Post by virmundi »

macintux wrote: post #174
armitron wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Again, the President's "take" is totally irrelevant in US being an authoritarian police state. The issue is systemic and can not be attributed to an individual or office. I'm not an American but have lived there in the past for many years. It has always baffled me how Americans are willing to blame the left or the right instead of the system as a whole. Maybe because if they did so, they would be undermining the very…

It's not a huge leap from "we have systemic problems" to "both sides are equally to blame", and the latter is too often used as an excuse for bad behavior.

Remember, Obama order the extrajudicial killing of an American because he was a member of a terrorist organization. Terrorism is a crime in the United States. Hence there should have been an attempt to arrest.

Re: US customs and border protection is flying a surveillance drone over Minneapolis

#188

Post by jorblumesea »

nightski wrote: post #136
jorblumesea wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The DOJ is part of the executive branch and is instrumental in setting national standards and investigating police departments. FBI as well. The executive branch has a fair amount of sway in how policing is done in the US and largely can help set direction, set policies, investigate departments and "clean house". for example: https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/justice-department-announces-... Who is President is very muc…

Really? It is my understanding that in Minnesota the governor did not even have control over the local policing, that was left to local leadership (mayor + police chief). He only took over control today, which was a very rare move. So I am not following how the president has much authority over local police activities. That is why Trump is referencing the National Guard and not an actual police force.

I don't think I'm implying the president has direct control over local authorities. I'm simply saying that policing in the US is complex and saying "it doesn't matter who you elect" clearly isn't true. The executive branch has huge soft power over how policing is done in the US. For example, the rise of militarized police is largely due to donated spare Iraq war equipment. The executive branch chose to donate this.

Re: US customs and border protection is flying a surveillance drone over Minneapolis

#189

Post by chrismcb »

beambot wrote: post #32
pm90 wrote: post #22

This was very predictable. Tools invented for military operations abroad eventually, predictably find their way back domestically. Despite that, its a dangerous thing to happen. I am aware of how unlikely it is for the current US Government to use the drone offensively, but once you have a massive fleet of drones flying over the US, patrolling "troubling" neighborhoods constantly, the temptation to use those abilitie…

Where do you draw the distinction between a drone (presumably unarmed) vs a police helicopter?

I think the difference is in cost (time and money) as well as stealth. A small drone is easily deployed and fairly unobtrusive. A helicopter takes a bit more time and I think it's more expensive. Plus it isn't exactly stealthy.

Re: US customs and border protection is flying a surveillance drone over Minneapolis

#190

Post by JumpCrisscross »

daeken wrote: post #99
joshmn wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> People aren't rioting because they want to destroy things There are people who want to destroy things. See: https://twitter.com/keithellison/status/1266127105621983238?... for a the current manchild of the hour. It often cascades from individuals like these. He may be the poster boy of the chaos but I assure you, as someone who has been in these streets, he is not alone. Please, come join us and you can see for you…

Does rioting destroy things? Yes. But read that sentence from me again: "People aren't rioting because they want to destroy things". People are rioting because they see this as the only way forward, not because they want a new TV. They may get that TV in the process, but it's not the motivation.

Protesting and rioting are separate, and often done by separate people. One gives cover to the other. But it doesn’t need to lead to the other.
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