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US customs and border protection is flying a surveillance drone over Minneapolis

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Re: US customs and border protection is flying a surveillance drone over Minneapolis

#171

Post by dmix »

user982 wrote: post #51
dpflan wrote: post #15

FTA: "Unarmed Predator drones were first used within the United States in 2012, when the Department of Homeland Security flew one over the property of a cattle farmer named Rodney Brossart to surveil him, and to help end a 16-hour standoff between him and another rancher over a stolen-cattle dispute. The use was highly controversial at the time; since then, CBP has used drones hundreds of times, and has not kept very…

Exceptional first cases pave precedent for unexceptional normalization.

This is why I'm looking forward to ~1 year from now to see who is getting 'fact checked' on Twitter.

Only a fool would be evaluating the first case to judge whether the whole idea is valid.

Re: US customs and border protection is flying a surveillance drone over Minneapolis

#172

Post by lidHanteyk »

nickff wrote: post #42
coldpie wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Friend, you have no idea what you are talking about. Please do as the other guy said and shut up and listen for five minutes. Protesters took over the precinct station that the murderers worked at and burned it to the ground last night. https://kstp.com/news/protests-continue-in-twin-cities-st-pa...

Do you think that telling someone to "shut up and listen for five minutes" is an effective way to communicate your message? How would you respond to such a lead-in?

Personally? I would shut up and listen to their thesis statement. I would carefully examine the main foundational and historical claims which underlie the thesis, and I would consider the demands which accompany the complaint and how those demands might, when fulfilled, change and improve the lives of the movants.

I'm not sure why this is so hard for you. Surely you've shut up and listened to people before?

Re: US customs and border protection is flying a surveillance drone over Minneapolis

#173

Post by coryrc »

komali2 wrote: post #141
golf3 wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unlikely, were they on their way to church also?

Who knows, but the protests were noore violent than when white militiamen stormed the statehouse two weeks ago.. and yet the cops shot tear gas plastic bullets into the crowd anyway.

Did they loot the place while they were there?

Re: US customs and border protection is flying a surveillance drone over Minneapolis

#174

Post by macintux »

armitron wrote: post #107
jorblumesea wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Who the President may be at any moment in time is totally irrelevant in US being This is not the case and has never been the case. Presidents have different interpretations of executive powers. Trump clearly has an extremely authoritarian take on where the President sits in our government. This is plainly obvious for everyone to see and a very non-controversial observation.

Again, the President's "take" is totally irrelevant in US being an authoritarian police state. The issue is systemic and can not be attributed to an individual or office. I'm not an American but have lived there in the past for many years. It has always baffled me how Americans are willing to blame the left or the right instead of the system as a whole. Maybe because if they did so, they would be undermining the very…

It's not a huge leap from "we have systemic problems" to "both sides are equally to blame", and the latter is too often used as an excuse for bad behavior.

Re: US customs and border protection is flying a surveillance drone over Minneapolis

#175

Post by kfrzcode »

daeken wrote: post #9
joshmn wrote: post #3

Native Minnesotan here — living in Minneapolis — that has lived on both coasts: With all that's happening the last few days, please don't generally associate Minnesotans with the violent riots that have captured the attention of everyone. The peacefulness of the protests and gatherings has been overshadowed by the violence. There are countless examples of Minnesotans standing up to those who choose to loot and destro…

> With all that's happening the last few days, please don't associate Minnesotans with the riots that have captured the attention of everyone. I understand what you're going for, but this is a bad approach. People aren't rioting because they want to destroy things, they're rioting because they don't feel like they're being heard. What you're saying here reads as "don't listen to them, they don't represent us" which i…

I listened to many, many, people, on the ground.

I live a few blocks away from the location of the Floyd incident.

Attacking police officers (or really anyone, at all) shouldn't be encouraged, in my opinion. Ever.

Is an eye-for-an-eye the type of justice that's needed? I don't like it.

These are actual quotes:

"Fuck police, shoot the pigs!" "Innocents are gonna die" "This is just the start, you ready? You ready?" "We're going to burn this fucker down" "Kill the white folks! Kill whitey!"

Whatever. I've been labeled racist for not wanting to watch my city burn. Can't we have justice without violence?

Re: US customs and border protection is flying a surveillance drone over Minneapolis

#176

Post by kfrzcode »

chasd00 wrote: post #24
daeken wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> With all that's happening the last few days, please don't associate Minnesotans with the riots that have captured the attention of everyone. I understand what you're going for, but this is a bad approach. People aren't rioting because they want to destroy things, they're rioting because they don't feel like they're being heard. What you're saying here reads as "don't listen to them, they don't represent us" which i…

people do, indeed, riot and destroy things to steal and loot. That's the point. Notice it's not the police station being burned down.

They burned down the precinct.

Re: US customs and border protection is flying a surveillance drone over Minneapolis

#177

Post by Analemma_ »

meragrin_ wrote: post #121
dv_dt wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Perhaps this is too political, but the only tool they actually needed was one they had the whole time. Charge the offices based upon the evidence and open a more detailed investigation. The military equipment was entirely unnecessary - but it's very availability makes opportunity for bad decisions.

In all probability, union rules stand in the way of making any quick arrests. Their hands are tied. It is better for them to appear slow and do things by the book than try to appease the irrational mob. They'll eventually get to where the mob wants to go rather than ending up with the cops "winning" in some way due violations of union rules and procedures.

Gosh, at my next union meeting I should remember to ask for barriers to being arrested. That's a thing, right?

Re: US customs and border protection is flying a surveillance drone over Minneapolis

#178

Post by pm90 »

remarkEon wrote: post #149
komali2 wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Lol. The protests started peaceful. There were no calls to burn down a police station. The first window shattered was done so by an undercover cop. The first violent action taken was by the cops. So the people responded in turn. Nope, I don't blame them. They tried kneeling, so the president got a football player fired. They tried peacefully protesting, the cops showed up armed to the teeth and fired at people with p…

>There were no calls to burn down a police station. This must be a joke. If you watched any live feed from the last couple days there are countless examples of people calling for exactly that. >They tried kneeling, so the president got a football player fired. Yeah and the next logical step here is to burn down businesses, probably run by immigrants no less. I stand by my previous statement that America is farther on…

Please don’t do this here. Demonizing HN users or blaming them for systemic issues while trying to have an honest conversation is totally uncalled for.

Re: US customs and border protection is flying a surveillance drone over Minneapolis

#179

Post by mattkrause »

ortusdux wrote: post #163
beambot wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Where do you draw the distinction between a drone (presumably unarmed) vs a police helicopter?

Philly, 1985: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MOVE#1985_bombing "There was an armed standoff with police,[5] who lobbed tear gas canisters at the building. The MOVE members fired at them and a gunfight with semi-automatic and automatic firearms ensued.[32] Police went through over ten thousand rounds of ammunition before Commissioner Sambor ordered that the compound be bombed.[32] From a Pennsylvania State Police helic…

It's obviously sinister and is a pretty good hint at the end goals, but "Hunter-Killer" is also the project name. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USAF_Hunter-Killer

Re: US customs and border protection is flying a surveillance drone over Minneapolis

#180

Post by testbot123 »

remarkEon wrote: post #111
pm90 wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fellow HN user, I welcome you with warmth so please don't take what I say offensively, but as a different perspective. > What happened is awful. It doesn't reflect how genuinely kind people in Minnesota are and how we, collectively feel about what happened and the movement at large. There will always be edge-cases as there is with any situation in any context. But for everyone that I've known, for everyone I've met a…

Another fellow Minnesotan here and former Minneapolis resident (used to live a mile away from Hiawatha and Lake back in the day). >Characterizing what is happening as an edge case is a huge mistake. People do not spontaneously start protesting with so much anger if it hasn't built up over so long. These protests are at least partly drummed up by out of state agitators, and are implicitly condoned by a feckless and we…

"I must confess that over the past few years I have been gravely disappointed with the white moderate. I have almost reached the regrettable conclusion that the Negro’s great stumbling block in his stride toward freedom is not the White Citizen’s Counciler or the Ku Klux Klanner, but the white moderate, who is more devoted to “order” than to justice; who prefers a negative peace which is the absence of tension to a positive peace which is the presence of justice; who constantly says: “I agree with you in the goal you seek, but I cannot agree with your methods of direct action”; who paternalistically believes he can set the timetable for another man’s freedom; who lives by a mythical concept of time and who constantly advises the Negro to wait for a “more convenient season.” Shallow understanding from people of good will is more frustrating than absolute misunderstanding from people of ill will. Lukewarm acceptance is much more bewildering than outright rejection." - MLK
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