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Have you ever asked yourself “how did research get done before LateX?”

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Re: Have you ever asked yourself “how did research get done before LateX?”

#181

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I think the idea would be more like Jet Brain’s IDE for LateX. Ofcourse I have doubts if some team can pull this off well.

Have you tried the TeXiFy IDEA plugin? It's well-maintained and has saved me a bunch of time. https://github.com/Hannah-Sten/TeXiFy-IDEA https://plugins.jetbrains.com/plugin/9473-texify-idea

That's...amazing. Didn't even think to look there. Will totally be checking that out.

Re: Have you ever asked yourself “how did research get done before LateX?”

#182
post #71
post #55

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> the single most cost effective way to speed up math and physics research by a philanthropist would be taking a few million dollars and hiring a team of developers to bring LaTeX into the 21st century This might be a niche opinion, but I think Rmarkdown & Jupyter get us a non-negligible portion of the way there. You can use LaTeX chunks when you need equations, markdown syntax when you need formatting (IIRC this is…

bUt MuH TypESeTtInG! I think you're absolutely right. But people seem to value a specific flavour of aesthetics over easy to understand and reproducible research. I guess that's maybe partly caused by the publication pressure, once you start to pump out papers for pumping out papers sake, there is little incentive to go beyond the superficial.

> bUt MuH TypESeTtInG!

I didn't read the rest of your post after this, because the only purpose of this is to inflame and troll.

Re: Have you ever asked yourself “how did research get done before LateX?”

#184
post #154

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Just read your rant/blogpost. You didn't give too many examples of what's wrong with LaTeX, but you did mention putting two images next to each other. Isn't this just: \includegraphics{img1} \includegraphics{img2} Or is that not what you meant?

Subcaption package https://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/LaTeX/Floats,_Figures_and_Capt...

Okay, nice, but maybe overkill, unless you want to refer to them separately within the main text?

Re: Have you ever asked yourself “how did research get done before LateX?”

#185
post #148

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Let's take an example: https://arxiv.org/pdf/1606.06389.pdf A cursory inspection seems to indicate ctrl-F is fine here? Or am I missing something?

Try copying across a line break. You'll notice that the spaces between the words are missing when you paste it.

Just tried copying across a line break on page 9, seems to work:

Here the potential function is, to say the least, not very simple.

Re: Have you ever asked yourself “how did research get done before LateX?”

#186

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Generally I use a Makefile that looks like this ``` SRC :=$(wildcard .tex .bib) Paper.pdf: $(SRC) pdflatex Paper bibtex Paper.aux pdflatex Paper pdflatex Paper short: $(SRC) pdflatex Paper clean: rm -f .glo .log .dvi .gls .toc .aux .ist .out .glg .pdf .bbl .blg .lof .brf *.sta .PHONY: clean ``` I hate that you have to run things multiple times to get references right. Really it should just be `pdflatex Paper` and you…

Isn't this what latexmk does for you? I don't use things like bibtext so I don't know how it handles that, but latexmk works perfectly for normal use cases, and ensures that you never have to run it more times than you need to.

I didn't know about this before so I can't answer, but it looks like yes. Thanks!

Re: Have you ever asked yourself “how did research get done before LateX?”

#187
post #152
post #148

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Let's take an example: https://arxiv.org/pdf/1606.06389.pdf A cursory inspection seems to indicate ctrl-F is fine here? Or am I missing something?

Single column layouts often work semi-acceptably for text only, when not purposefully tampered with. However if you try to select the text on page 2, you'll see that the layout engine didn't actually place the formula into its own section. Not only is it broken, with the sum signs missing, it is also jumbled up with the text below it, resulting in weird - text broken formula - text - broken formula - mumbo jumbo. Thi…

No need to go on, that's already more than I bargained for, thank you so much for taking the time to respond :)

I suspect we're using different PDF viewers; I'm using the one that comes with my browser.

The results are somewhat less disastrous than you describe, but still bad. (I'm seeing maybe half the problems you mentioned.) I'm a bit curious which viewer you're using.

I can describe what happens when I copy/paste the stuff you mentioned on pages 2/8/etc., and if you're interested I will, but if you're not interested let me ask a slightly different question:

Rather than try to get the screen reader to make sense of the final PDF, would it be easier to just download the original page source from arxiv and let the screen reader deal with that?

Re: Have you ever asked yourself “how did research get done before LateX?”

#188
post #187
post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Single column layouts often work semi-acceptably for text only, when not purposefully tampered with. However if you try to select the text on page 2, you'll see that the layout engine didn't actually place the formula into its own section. Not only is it broken, with the sum signs missing, it is also jumbled up with the text below it, resulting in weird - text broken formula - text - broken formula - mumbo jumbo. Thi…

No need to go on, that's already more than I bargained for, thank you so much for taking the time to respond :) I suspect we're using different PDF viewers; I'm using the one that comes with my browser. The results are somewhat less disastrous than you describe, but still bad. (I'm seeing maybe half the problems you mentioned.) I'm a bit curious which viewer you're using. I can describe what happens when I copy/paste…

I was using the builtin viewer of chrome I think, could also have been safari.

Using the original TeX source for the screen reader is significantly hindered by the fact that TeX isn't a markup-, but a programming language.

TeX is turing-complete by design, making it infinitely extensible, in order to avoid knuth ever having to re-typeset his books. After all if it's a programming language and a new system, problem, style, e.t.c, comes along you can just write a program that deals with it.

But this has horrible effects on render-ability, in order to know what the final document should look like, you need to run it, no way around that, thanks to Rice's theorem.

LaTeX users also generate a lot of their figures with TeX itself, write their own styling or bibliography rules, and write their own custom graphics rendering libraries.

The easiest path is to just give up, render the entire PDF to a 300dpi lossless image, and throw it into an OCR engine. These things contain a buttload of heuristics to generate structure and meaningful text based on visuals, and since we know that humans explicitly (and often only) care about those in TeX documents...

It's pretty darn sad, because in many ways TeX is holding scientific advances back, by eating its own children. My guess is that if scientific papers had branched off of plaintext tools like troff, we'd probably publish papers as machine readable semantically annotated knowledge-graphs by now.

Re: Have you ever asked yourself “how did research get done before LateX?”

#189
post #184

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Subcaption package https://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/LaTeX/Floats,_Figures_and_Capt...

Okay, nice, but maybe overkill, unless you want to refer to them separately within the main text?

If the images are not related to each other, but you want to place them on top of the page together for stylistic reasons, you probably want a simple minipage environment with two figure environments inside.

Re: Have you ever asked yourself “how did research get done before LateX?”

#190
post #184

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Okay, nice, but maybe overkill, unless you want to refer to them separately within the main text?

If the images are not related to each other, but you want to place them on top of the page together for stylistic reasons, you probably want a simple minipage environment with two figure environments inside.

I meant they might be so closely related that you want them share the same caption and figure number and everything.
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