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Colleges face student lawsuits seeking refunds after coronavirus closures

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Re: Colleges face student lawsuits seeking refunds after coronavirus closures

#41

Post by ksaun »

PragmaticPulp wrote: post #24
cg505 wrote: post #18

> "In my personal opinion, I can deliver the same quality of education online as I could in person." Although this statement is debatable to begin with, it also misses a huge point. Even if the quality of an online education is the same, many students cannot learn as anywhere near as well in that environment. They paid tens of thousands of dollars for in-person learning, so for that to be replaced with something enti…

As the article stated, many of these universities did give partial refunds. The students are demanding even more refunds while still collecting the education. I’m curious: Would you consider the same argument valid for workers forced to work remotely? Would you be upset if a company decided to cut workers’ pay in half during COVID19 remote work under the assumption that some workers can’t be as efficient remotely? Af…

> As the article stated, many of these universities did give partial refunds. The students are demanding even more refunds while still collecting the education.

To be clear, the article doesn't state that partial refunds of tuition have been offered, but that "many did offer partial refunds of dorm and activities fees."

Re: Colleges face student lawsuits seeking refunds after coronavirus closures

#42

Post by PragmaticPulp »

asutekku wrote: post #25
PragmaticPulp wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But you’re not car shopping and this isn’t a Ferrari vs. Corolla scenario. If you read the article, you’ll see that the Universities did give partial refunds. These students are demanding even more refunds, while still collecting the education. The education is still delivered, just through a different medium. If we believe that engineers can work just as effectively remotely, why can’t we believe that educators and…

People do not pay to get only the education. Yes, it is a prominent part of it but more important are the facilities, the community and the networking capabilities. With remote teaching, everything else except learning is lost. There’s no reason to pay the sums the universities are charging considering you can get the same education from almost any university.

> There’s no reason to pay the sums the universities are charging considering you can get the same education from almost any university.

I think you’re arguing against something other than the Coronavirus and remote education situation at this point.

Re: Colleges face student lawsuits seeking refunds after coronavirus closures

#43

Post by andygcook »

It's interesting that the short term solution of not giving refunds will likely cause long-term pain for universities because they are then admitting that remote is "the same as" in person. Most of the university value is in the experience. I'd predict that if colleges don't admit in person > online and don't offer refunds, then many students will decide to save the $150K over four years and just take online courses, then live in an interesting city to get that life/social experience.

Re: Colleges face student lawsuits seeking refunds after coronavirus closures

#44

Post by rb808 »

Colleges should just open up. Young students are low risk that they're unlikely to be very sick if/when they contract disease. There will be some old or unhealthy staff members that can be protected.

California and NY have stronger lock down rules, but people should just transfer to Texas, Florida places that are more open.

Re: Colleges face student lawsuits seeking refunds after coronavirus closures

#45

Post by PragmaticPulp »

mikeg8 wrote: post #33
PragmaticPulp wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But you’re not car shopping and this isn’t a Ferrari vs. Corolla scenario. If you read the article, you’ll see that the Universities did give partial refunds. These students are demanding even more refunds, while still collecting the education. The education is still delivered, just through a different medium. If we believe that engineers can work just as effectively remotely, why can’t we believe that educators and…

Remote work in engineering is completely different then remote learning. Engineers are self-directed, a particular type of thinker. Maybe the professors are just as effective at performing remote work, but that does not mean that all students can just flip a switch a perform at the same levels.

As a manager of remote teams, I can assure you that not all engineers are adept at working remotely.

It’s fairly elitist to declare that engineers are good at remote work while assuming that students are not.

You can’t make blanket statements about engineers while simultaneously arguing that students are too diverse for the same treatment.

Re: Colleges face student lawsuits seeking refunds after coronavirus closures

#46

Post by Ididntdothis »

ben7799 wrote: post #10

This is just the straw that is popping the college bubble. My Alma mater has 15 administrators who make 2-3x more than the President did when I graduated. The President makes $5 million+. The VP/Dean of HR makes > $1 million. Administrators took a 5% pay cut. Lots of professors are furloughed or laid off. The school did all kinds of shenanigans to hang onto as much tuition/board/food money as they could. Students are…

Same at a neighboring city. They want to lay off workers due to COVID while they have doubled administrative staff over the last few years. And none of the administrators is going to get laid off.

The plan is to have parks being cleaned by unpaid volunteers instead of city staff.

Re: Colleges face student lawsuits seeking refunds after coronavirus closures

#47

Post by cjmaria »

xiaolingxiao wrote: post #32
ben7799 wrote: post #10

This is just the straw that is popping the college bubble. My Alma mater has 15 administrators who make 2-3x more than the President did when I graduated. The President makes $5 million+. The VP/Dean of HR makes > $1 million. Administrators took a 5% pay cut. Lots of professors are furloughed or laid off. The school did all kinds of shenanigans to hang onto as much tuition/board/food money as they could. Students are…

which college is this, if you don't mind me asking? I mean the dean of HR is making 1million ...

This sounds strikingly similar to what's going on at my school, Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute. President has a 5mm+ salary and took only a 5% pay cut while laying off (not furloughing!) 60 faculty members.

Re: Colleges face student lawsuits seeking refunds after coronavirus closures

#48

Post by elwes5 »

acomjean wrote: post #9

I was taking a class that transitioned online. (University extension school, biostatistics). So the networking and campus related activities don't relate to me. At the extension school, some classes were taught online already (this one was in person only). I felt the teaching staff made a pretty huge effort to get things online and running well. I'm sure they weren't getting paid more to make the transition. There wa…

My guess the tuition will be similar in price. However, if it were me going to college at this time I would seriously consider skipping a year/semester if they did that. Get a small time job somewhere and help get ahead of the loans I already racked up. But that is just me. It became crystal clear to me a few years ago that these schools had gone off the rails price wise. My wife was taking 1 class. The book was more than the class and the previous semester you could not buy used. Ironically the class was micro economics.

Re: Colleges face student lawsuits seeking refunds after coronavirus closures

#49

Post by WrtCdEvrydy »

jawns wrote: post #28

The reason there is such a large premium for on-campus education versus online universities is because on-campus education is an experience as much as it is a service. If you're only interested in mastering the content, then online learning may be the place for you. That's why we see so many people pursuing online courses for their master's degrees and when they return to school later in life. They just want the cont…

> on-campus education versus online universities is because on-campus education is an experience as much as it is a service.

If this is a true, then why is the online version much pricier?

Re: Colleges face student lawsuits seeking refunds after coronavirus closures

#50

Post by Ididntdothis »

ouid wrote: post #13
paulcole wrote: post #11

Investors should step in and pay the kids off (since these lawsuits are either guaranteed losers or will take years to settle). Then in exchange take a % of their future earnings. Vary the % and timeline based on the degree they're seeking.

This is indentured servitude, and expressly forbidden in the United States.

That’s actually a good agreement if not done in a predatory way. Which it is almost to be guaranteed if the finance guys set the terms of such an agreement.
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