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Alterations in glutamate and the experience of ego dissolution with psilocybin

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Re: Alterations in glutamate and the experience of ego dissolution with psilocybin

#131

Post by ta1234567890 »

PragmaticPulp wrote: post #115
themgt wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's wrong is psychedelics already work as-is, but due to stigma around "fun" alterations of consciousness possibly being beneficial (along with desire for a patentable compound that can get through FDA regs), most of the focus has been on how we can go about removing the wetness from water while preserving water's essential useful properties. Regardless of how many years go by and self-reporting along with scienti…

> What's wrong is psychedelics already work as-is The current research into psychedelic medicine is better described as intense therapy with a psychedelic adjunct for some sessions. They aren't just giving people psychedelics and hoping everything turns out okay. The psychedelic dosing is combined with therapy, and the sessions are both preceded by and followed with additional therapy without psychedelics. It's a mis…

> They aren't just giving people psychedelics and hoping everything turns out okay. The psychedelic dosing is combined with therapy, and the sessions are both preceded by and followed with additional therapy without psychedelics.

And historically, that's exactly the way psychedelics have been used, for thousands of years. A shaman/guide would provide the medicine and help the people go through the experience, usually in a tight community where there's follow up and support.

Unfortunately that was suppressed, first by the Catholic Church when the Spanish arrived to America, and now more recently by making psychedelics illegal.

The idea of psychedelics being some sort of party drug is a problem of the current state of affairs, politically and culturally, where we have abandoned or forgotten their origins.

Re: Alterations in glutamate and the experience of ego dissolution with psilocybin

#132

Post by PragmaticPulp »

spuz wrote: post #82
joeberon wrote: post #6

Totally anecdotal but LSD made my depression significantly worse than improving it in any way. I had two proper trips and had a seizure kind of thing at the start of the second one due to the overwhelming visuals (not experienced anything like that before or since). EDIT: to expand, it made me very questioning of my own consciousness and gave me severe and persistent existential dread and fear of death to the point w…

The process that patients go through when participating in a medical trial of psilocybin is so different than the typical recreational setting that the rest of us experience these drugs. They do everything they can to make sure the patient is well prepared and has the minimum chance of having a bad trip. However, every time I read about studies into psychedelics, I only ever hear about the upsides and not the potenti…

> The process that patients go through when participating in a medical trial of psilocybin is so different than the typical recreational setting that the rest of us experience these drugs. They do everything they can to make sure the patient is well prepared and has the minimum chance of having a bad trip.

Not just this, but they surround the sessions with intense therapy.

They're not just giving people psychedelics and keeping them calm. Look up the MAPS (a foundation for psychedelic research) protocol. People are given a series of intense therapy sessions, only some of which involve psychedelics.

Sadly, many of the studies fail to have an active control group. That is, they aren't comparing therapy + psychedelics to therapy alone. That's a major pitfall in the current research.

And unfortunately, the therapy component of the research is lost in most internet headlines and articles. People are walking away with the impression that psychedelics are inherently anti-depressant compounds, when the reality is that they're being researched as adjuncts to intense therapy.

Re: Alterations in glutamate and the experience of ego dissolution with psilocybin

#133

Post by joncrane »

josephpmay wrote: post #67
specialist wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's rough. I'm sorry you're struggling with the aftermath. My own story may be relevant to you. FWIW: I was really into zen as a kid. Part of my rebellion against Christianity and leaving my church. Once while meditating, I accidentally had a pretty bad trip. (I can describe the actual trip separately.) I was completely unprepared, didn't even know such a thing was possible. It's kicked my ass ever since. From wha…

Wait, you accidentally experienced ego death while meditating as a kid!? That's fascinating If you're willing to share, I would love to hear more. How did you get so deeply into meditation? What was your practice like? What were you doing that got you to such a "bad trip"

I don't know if this is the same thing, but in my early teens, I terrified myself during meditation because I got to a point where I felt I could "think myself out of existence" if I had continued along the (mental) path I was on.

Not sure if that's the same thing as ego death but it was terrifying.

Re: Alterations in glutamate and the experience of ego dissolution with psilocybin

#134

Post by specialist »

joncrane wrote: post #133
josephpmay wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wait, you accidentally experienced ego death while meditating as a kid!? That's fascinating If you're willing to share, I would love to hear more. How did you get so deeply into meditation? What was your practice like? What were you doing that got you to such a "bad trip"

I don't know if this is the same thing, but in my early teens, I terrified myself during meditation because I got to a point where I felt I could "think myself out of existence" if I had continued along the (mental) path I was on. Not sure if that's the same thing as ego death but it was terrifying.

Sounds the same. The Void is terrifying. Whenever my distractions stop working -- Hello Hacker News! -- my mind wanders back and everything seems a lot less real.

Re: Alterations in glutamate and the experience of ego dissolution with psilocybin

#135

Post by higginsc »

stared wrote: post #34

Personally, I think that the effective ban on psychedelic research is a crime against science and mental healthcare - given its immense potential. Sure, there are risks, but we routinely use drugs (as in: medications) of far worse side effects! For some reason, reading Grof felt like reading "Solaris" by Lem - on forsaken, unreal research. I am happy to we are slowly starting research into that. I recommend "Realms o…

> Personally, I think that the effective ban on psychedelic research is a crime against science and mental healthcare - given its immense potential...I am happy to we are slowly starting research into that.

Have you thought about supporting the people who have been laying the groundwork for the current wave of research (e.g. https://www.heffter.org/)? This new crop of research owes a lot to this group's decades long mission to bring psychedelic research back to acceptability.

[no affiliation other than knowing some of the founding board members]

Re: Alterations in glutamate and the experience of ego dissolution with psilocybin

#136

Post by empath75 »

joeberon wrote: post #6

Totally anecdotal but LSD made my depression significantly worse than improving it in any way. I had two proper trips and had a seizure kind of thing at the start of the second one due to the overwhelming visuals (not experienced anything like that before or since). EDIT: to expand, it made me very questioning of my own consciousness and gave me severe and persistent existential dread and fear of death to the point w…

I don't want to downplay the negative effect it had on you and the difficulty you're having integrating the experience, but it's possible that long term, confronting those thoughts and feelings directly and coming through the other side will end up being better for you.

Everyone has to confront their own mortality eventually.

Re: Alterations in glutamate and the experience of ego dissolution with psilocybin

#137

Post by raducu »

joncrane wrote: post #126
raducu wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you used to be on SSRIs and they worked, then LSD doesn't sound like a good match. I regret not taking psychedelics, but I hallucinated from a large dosage of hashish and had visual disturbances for a couple of days after, so I figured it's better to not mess with other psychedelics. I also got a bad panic attack from a moderate dosage of stimulants(bad idea mixing them) and I could not drink coffee for 2 years, o…

>though it does seem to cause joint pain Wait, you get this, too? I have searched for answers to this and gotten nothing. I have long suspected that my coffee habits correspond to my joint pain, but I have associated it with many other things in a search for truth. Can you elaborate?

It is just an observation that I made, the research seems to be mixed.

My joint pain started a couple of years ago (early 30s), with really bad pain in my thumb joint after some exertion, X-ray or MRI showed I had some inflammation and excessive liquid, the pain went away after one month or so; then I got pain on the outside of my elbows (perhaps from incorrect posture and lifting my toddler all the time); I originally thought it had to do with my nicotine usage, but I quit for some good months and nothing happened, on the contrary, I started using more coffee and my pain got worse.

I don't think the coffee is 100% responsible, rather that it exacerbates some underlying condition; but so far it is pretty dramatic -- after quitting coffee for a couple of days, my pain is almost gone -- and that happened for too many times to be just a coincidence(though it could).

Re: Alterations in glutamate and the experience of ego dissolution with psilocybin

#138

Post by raducu »

PragmaticPulp wrote: post #120
raducu wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you used to be on SSRIs and they worked, then LSD doesn't sound like a good match. I regret not taking psychedelics, but I hallucinated from a large dosage of hashish and had visual disturbances for a couple of days after, so I figured it's better to not mess with other psychedelics. I also got a bad panic attack from a moderate dosage of stimulants(bad idea mixing them) and I could not drink coffee for 2 years, o…

> If you used to be on SSRIs and they worked, then LSD doesn't sound like a good match Do you have any evidence at all to support this claim? LSD isn't inherently an anti-depressant. The research around psychedelics involves many sessions of intense therapy with LSD used in some sessions to help facilitate the therapy. Researchers aren't just dosing people with psychedelics and walking away. The drug itself isn't doi…

I have absolutely no evidence, just my reasoning that if you are depressed and SSRIs work, there must be something wrong with those serotonin networks and SSRIs working mean some balance was restored; LSD will just blast the same networks.

I was not under the impression that OP did LSD in a therapeutical setting.

Re: Alterations in glutamate and the experience of ego dissolution with psilocybin

#139

Post by raducu »

blaufast wrote: post #81
raducu wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you used to be on SSRIs and they worked, then LSD doesn't sound like a good match. I regret not taking psychedelics, but I hallucinated from a large dosage of hashish and had visual disturbances for a couple of days after, so I figured it's better to not mess with other psychedelics. I also got a bad panic attack from a moderate dosage of stimulants(bad idea mixing them) and I could not drink coffee for 2 years, o…

Mental disturbances from hashish and psychedelics, while similar symptoms, are completely different internally. I wouldn’t rule out psychedelics based on that experience.

It wasn't just "mental" as in anxiety -- those were visual disturbances -- tracers in bright led lights, bright spots in grill patterns (metal or my chess-pattern shirt). The experience just made me think I'm predisposed to HPPD so I thought to play it safe.

Re: Alterations in glutamate and the experience of ego dissolution with psilocybin

#140

Post by KingFelix »

higginsc wrote: post #135
stared wrote: post #34

Personally, I think that the effective ban on psychedelic research is a crime against science and mental healthcare - given its immense potential. Sure, there are risks, but we routinely use drugs (as in: medications) of far worse side effects! For some reason, reading Grof felt like reading "Solaris" by Lem - on forsaken, unreal research. I am happy to we are slowly starting research into that. I recommend "Realms o…

> Personally, I think that the effective ban on psychedelic research is a crime against science and mental healthcare - given its immense potential...I am happy to we are slowly starting research into that. Have you thought about supporting the people who have been laying the groundwork for the current wave of research (e.g. https://www.heffter.org/ )? This new crop of research owes a lot to this group's decades long…

also MAPS,
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