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The Day AppGet Died

keivan.io

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Re: The Day AppGet Died

#251

Post by scotty79 »

divbzero wrote: post #246
scotty79 wrote: post #151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> some higher ups decided no, they don't need to hire you Total misjudgment on their part. Thanks to this one HN post they already lost in terms of developer good will way more than his potential salary would be. Every time anyone who uses WinGet, who read this, will think 'oh, yeah, that's the tool that Microsoft build their version of behind original author's back, while stringing him and ghosting for few months".

Yes. Microsoft really dropped the ball on this one. So much of what Microsoft has been doing — GitHub, .NET Core, NPM, Visual Studio Code, Windows Subsystem for Linux, etc. — has been to build goodwill with “developers! developers! developers!” Taking the resources to do an acquihire (or hire + bonus) right is small relative to the PR hit.

Exactly. All the things you mentioned are great, and a sign that after decades of being insular, blindly corporately evil, Microsoft started becoming worthy of interest.

And when I first heard about WinGet I though, "Yay! They continue to catch up to the place where developers are! Good for them!", but then this surfaced.

Re: The Day AppGet Died

#252

Post by Joeri »

sansnomme wrote: post #78
yjftsjthsd-h wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I love how those stories of the early years are so different from what I think of looking at companies today - > Jeff picked me up at the airport, and we drove to Microsoft's main building where we were joined by Neil Konzen, a talented 23 year old who was Microsoft's main systems programmer on the Macintosh. I knew Neil from his days as an early Apple II hobbyist, when we collaborated on adding features to an assemb…

Windows NT is designed out of the box for extending and embracing Unix. The whole Linux Subsystem thing isn't something new that required deep reworking of the kernel.

You should read the book Showstopper! to learn that NT was actually designed to be as far away from Unix as it could be. Dave Cutler, NT’s chief architect, hated Unix with a passion. He thought it was a rubbish OS. The internals are based on VMS, Cutler’s previous OS. That’s why NT has never been a good posix system and why microsoft has essentially given up with WSL2 and is now just running linux in a vm.

Re: The Day AppGet Died

#254

Post by corty »

throwaway2048 wrote: post #218
jpalomaki wrote: post #197

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Microsoft is likely looking for a solution that would allow easy distribution of software in enterprise context without having to repackage it. Having a widely accepted and used package format would solve that. You could just pick the package for notepad++ and others and push them to workstations via Intune.

They already have MSI though?

There were attempts, but never any followthrough. Even MS doesn't distribute all of its software as MSI.

Re: The Day AppGet Died

#255

Post by rusticpenn »

bluGill wrote: post #6
Wowfunhappy wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know the details of your project, but what if you open sourced under the GPL? I feels as though the world has soured on the GPL in recent years, but whenever I see this type of sentiment—that open sourcing work is just a gift from small developers to big tech companies, or something thereabouts—I think, wouldn't the GPL solve that problem? Sure, big companies can still use GPL'd code, but they're forced to gi…

Big companies are more likely to give back to non gpl code in my experience. The gpl scares them enough that when they use it they isolate it carefully so they don't have to make changes. Non gpl code (depending on license terms of course) get embedded where it is easier to need changes and then a desire to keep up with some other feature means they contribute back. Of course either way they are a business and will b…

Dual licensing helps. AGPL or Paid licence.

Re: The Day AppGet Died

#256

Post by shp0ngle »

grzm wrote: post #134
shp0ngle wrote: post #129

In comparison, Apple hosted MacPorts, an early OS X package manager, and started to be involved in it directly. (nowadays MacPorts is not really necessary with Homebrew around, but that’s another thing)

Homebrew is recapitulating all of the work that previous package managers have done, while making choices like analytics and stomping on /usr/local by default that others wouldn't consider. I think there's still a place for MacPorts.

I honestly really like how HomeBrew doesn't require "sudo" for anything. Random stuff I download from internet should not require system permissions to do anything they want. That part of HB design is what sells it for me.

Re: The Day AppGet Died

#258

Post by billme »

kayone wrote: post #80

Author here, Because it's sure to come up here is a comment I wrote on Reddit that clarifies somethings, I haven't updated the original article since I'm not sure what the etiquette for updating a highly shared article is. ------ Code being copied isn't an issue. I knew full well what it meant to release something opensource and I don't regret it one bit. What was copied with no credit is the foundation of the projec…

>> “I haven't updated the original article since I'm not sure what the etiquette for updating a highly shared article is.”

Adding “UPDATE:(date)text” either in the footer - with a brief dip in the header saying there’s an updated in the footer is an easy way to accomplish this.

Re: The Day AppGet Died

#259

Post by julienfr112 »

the Bad PR involved here largely offset what a good bonus to kayone whould have been. If it move the needle, say between Azure and Gcloud, on 10% of the thousand of read of this post, MS could end up losing millions of dollars a year.

Re: The Day AppGet Died

#260

Post by chx »

akdor1154 wrote: post #243
ijidak wrote: post #201

Keivan obviously got screwed. Having worked at Microsoft, and seeing the nature of the bureaucracy, the only advice I would give for next time is... Just realize you can't set terms with a large company like MSFT unless you get lawyers involved early. Stealing from you outright is simply too tempting, given their resources. I noticed there were some conditions Keivan tried to set regarding the future evolution of the…

I am interested (and kind of depressed) to think - is there actually a legally defensible upper hand that exists here?

If WinGet contains AppGet code and they didn't credit him then yes, absolutely, moral rights in copyright (attribution, right of association, integrity) cannot be transferred during the lifetime of the owner and yes MSFT can be sued for breaching them. It is extremely likely the penalties meted out by a judge wouldn't cover the costs of a lawyer. Not that anything like this would ever see a courtroom, MS will offer a settlement which in this case will be on the magnitude they gave to Mike Rowe for MikeRoweSoft.com (which was an xbox and some travel vouchers and such).

If they stole his unpatented ideas then there's nothing.

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