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HBO Max taking on Netflix with human curation instead of relying on algorithms

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Re: HBO Max taking on Netflix with human curation instead of relying on algorithms

#61

Post by gregmac »

sgift wrote: post #46
correct_horse wrote: post #8

I wasn't old enough to remember it, but when search engines tried to do this in the 90s, it became clear that people preferred machine recommendations. See yahoo directory, look smart.

People preferred it because Google - at the time - had found a scalable solution which gave (mostly) the best results. Why should I search for hours through directories if someone give me what I want after only entering a few words? No one has found the "page rank of movies/series" yet, so I think HBO has a better chance here.

> No one has found the "page rank of movies/series" yet, so I think HBO has a better chance here.

I'm not so sure -- I think the problem is no one has deployed it.

As a consumer, what I want is: based on my viewing history and/or shows I've said I like, show me more shows/movies I'll like.

What I currently get is: shows/movies that are in a similar style and genre to what I've watched or liked. The algorithm doesn't seem to take into account "good" vs "bad" movies.

The result is if I just randomly pick some movie from Netflix's "Because you watched.." recommendation, there's a very high chance I'm going to end up watching something I don't like because it isn't good.

As a concrete example, I just went to Netflix movies. "Because you watched Avengers: Infinity War...". There are 6 movies on the first page, 2 of which I've seen and have high Rotten Tomato scores (they are both Indiana Jones movies, with 88% and 85%). The other 4 have RT scores of 31%, 27%, 12%, and 3%. (Don't get me wrong, there are movies I do like that have low RT scores, and there are movies with high RT scores that I don't like, but generally a bad movie is a bad movie and more often than not there's a correlation with RT scores.)

Even if I could filter by "RT score > 60%" that would cut down on a lot of garbage, even if it means I might miss a couple movies/shows I'd actually like. This would change my personal perception from "The vast majority of content on Netflix isn't really worth watching" to something more positive. Note I still subscribe despite this -- there's still ample worthwhile content. I just don't watch things based on Netflix's recommendations alone.

Certainly it is possible to come up with something better than that blunt filter. So the question is: why don't they?

Re: HBO Max taking on Netflix with human curation instead of relying on algorithms

#62

Post by ed25519FUUU »

lifeisstillgood wrote: post #60

just weaponise YouTube content creators. My kids used to laugh at Villager News, a dumb but occasionally funny skit show using 3D animation to copy Minecraft. Amazon Video now runs the show on its streaming service. Basically YouTube became a method to make pilots for tv series. Imagine all the weird but low cost documentaries i try and find on YouTube - Tods Workshop, Primitive Technology. There will be a thousand s…

> Amazon Video now runs the show on its streaming service.

In that scenario you're competing against YouTube, a place with abundant content with very different expectations for quality. People already go to YouTube for this content.

Re: HBO Max taking on Netflix with human curation instead of relying on algorithms

#63

Post by ape4 »

zwaps wrote: post #41
ape4 wrote: post #16

"Curators, ranging from WarnerMedia editors to celebrities, put together a list of movies and TV shows they’re watching" ok so how do I know which human's taste is the same as mine. If only there was a recommendation engine for that.

It's not as if Netflix recommendation attempts are any good either. HBO has human defined categories that makes sense.

Its the category-defying movies that are interesting. Somebody might not click on Foreign Films but love Parasite.

Re: HBO Max taking on Netflix with human curation instead of relying on algorithms

#64

Post by slfnflctd »

j-kent wrote: post #5

Lately it feels like Netflix's algorithm is "just show Netflix produced content". Maybe I'm being nostalgic but I really miss the old shooting star recommendation system where you rated content and got similar likes from other viewers.

Nostalgic? No, you're displaying a reasonable response to a screwy situation.

Did everyone just forget about the Netflix Prize? [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Netflix_Prize]

There was a brief time when they had the absolute best recommendation algorithm on the planet. It was intentionally replaced by something utterly different which is geared to simply steer everyone to IP that they own. It is not remotely similar. I have absolutely hated every change they've made to their UI since they ditched the old ratings system, too (forces you to use the mouse and sets you up for fumbling what should be clear actions, so you spend more time browsing - which costs them almost nothing - and less time watching). My guess is, research indicated they'd make more money with these changes than by licensing content audiences actually prefer and building a sane interface.

As it turns out, the Netflix golden age was a short-lived anomaly if not outright farce. If you want decent curation of content and also to be able to watch it, you will have to pay through the nose or pirate. Same as it ever was. It's consumer hostile, but the system is working as its overseers intend. Whether it's really the best long term strategy is still an open question in my book.

Re: HBO Max taking on Netflix with human curation instead of relying on algorithms

#65

Post by koiz »

LiquidSky wrote: post #31

It's pretty funny that even this headline shows the bizarre marketing problem WB created in choosing "HBO Max" as their streaming service name: HBO isn't taking on Netflix, the service is for all WB content.

Yep, and keeping the other services running at the same time is just stupid.

Its obvious HBO Now could be merged completely into Max since you get access to both if you have Now but the fact they still keep Go around still is a joke.

Re: HBO Max taking on Netflix with human curation instead of relying on algorithms

#66

Post by delecti »

koiz wrote: post #44
delecti wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

HBO Max is just their newly renamed HBO Go and Now unification. If you had either Go or Now before, you now have Max. It's not really that complicated.

Actually you are incorrect, HBO Go and Now still exist as separate products. It is complicated for people that already have trouble tracking where their shows are on several different services. Even if they intend to merge Now into Max completely which likely is the case they still are making it confusing as hell for the common user.

I'm not sure that confusion will really exist, or that it would be warranted if it did. At least for HBO Now, the existing Android app updated and is now named HBO Max. I just logged into Max using my Now credentials, and it seems to have all the content from Now, plus some extra stuff. I think Max is just a renamed superset of Go/Now (which were basically just two names for the same thing anyway). There seems to be no reason to use Now anymore, and Go seems to only exist as a separate site to appease cable companies that HBO isn't offering a competing streaming service vs what they're giving "for free" to HBO cable subscribers.

Re: HBO Max taking on Netflix with human curation instead of relying on algorithms

#67

Post by romanovtexas »

HBO is betting on their content to be superior right now, but there are some obvious areas where the streaming experience isn't on par with Netflix. No 4K/HDR, one plan costing a premium that limits simultaneous streaming to only 3 screens, etc.

Hope that they catch up eventually else it's gonna be hard to compete solely based on content.

Re: HBO Max taking on Netflix with human curation instead of relying on algorithms

#69

Post by smartbit »

Hamuko wrote: post #32
adrr wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They produced 371 tv shows and movies last year. Combine that with previous years, it’s a lot of content that they own.

Yeah but how many of them are good? I can probably count the amount of Netflix original movies that I've heard discussed with one hand. And when it comes to stuff like Bird Box, the talk doesn't really even go with the quality.

Netflix is musty, as someone said to me. After overthinking, musty indeed is the best term for most of Netflix.

Last movie I saw and liked at Netflix was The two popes. Netflix doesn't carry top series like

- Exit https://www.imdb.com/title/tt9612102/

- Le bureau des légendes https://www.imdb.com/title/tt4063800/

- Okkupert EDIT was/is available https://www.netflix.com/title/80092654

In the US & Canada Netflix has Babylon Berlin https://www.imdb.com/title/tt4378376/ but IMHO it is not up to above three.

Looking forward to be able to watch hbo-europe.com documentaries like

- The Other Side of Everything https://www.othersideofeverything.com/

- Lessons of Love https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rM-wAlSFHZQ

Re: HBO Max taking on Netflix with human curation instead of relying on algorithms

#70

Post by [deleted] »

slfnflctd wrote: post #64
j-kent wrote: post #5

Lately it feels like Netflix's algorithm is "just show Netflix produced content". Maybe I'm being nostalgic but I really miss the old shooting star recommendation system where you rated content and got similar likes from other viewers.

Nostalgic? No, you're displaying a reasonable response to a screwy situation. Did everyone just forget about the Netflix Prize? [ https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Netflix_Prize ] There was a brief time when they had the absolute best recommendation algorithm on the planet. It was intentionally replaced by something utterly different which is geared to simply steer everyone to IP that they own. It is not remotely similar…

[deleted]
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