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A lot of “idiotic” things have reasonable explanations (2011)

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Re: A lot of “idiotic” things have reasonable explanations (2011)

#261
post #222

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Intelligence is hugely important for any kind of outlier success. It's no coincidence that Bill Gates, Jeff Bezos, and Jim Simons are undeniably brilliant. The claim that charisma, street smarts, or connections are more important than intelligence is absurd. There are so many fields in which those things just don't matter. If you're not charismatic don't pursue a career in a field that requires charisma. Simple. It's…

Sure they are smart, but you'll find smarter people at any theoretical physics department, if we're talking IQ. Also, I don't think we are talking about rich as in global top 100, what I at least meant more mundane financial success, like earning $1 m a year. At that level, you definitely don't need to be a genius, I'd say if anything a genius is much less likely to make a million a year.

People who don't try to become rich probably won't. That much is clear. When people pursue theoretical physics they knowingly choose a career that cuts off almost all paths to wealth. The question "so, why aren't you rich?" doesn't apply to people who aren't even trying.

For success within theoretical physics you see, again, exactly how important raw intelligence is. Charisma and people skills are nice, but top researchers are disproportionately brilliant. This isn't nearly as true in those scientific fields where research results are unverifiable. We've seen this in the recent months with the embarrassing quality of epidemiological modeling.

Earning $1m a year doesn't require exceptionalism of any kind, but there is a huge gap between $1m a year and the global top 100. And intelligence becomes more dominant and other traits start to matter less as the stakes increase.

Re: A lot of “idiotic” things have reasonable explanations (2011)

#262
post #227

Earlier quoted context omitted.

These two things are more important than most people are prepared to admit. Very few people ever do the "rags to riches" thing. The few that do are probably good looking. Some people are just born with the ability to be far more successful than others.

I agree, but luckily everyone is born with the ability to define what success means to them.

And I'm sure that's a great comfort to the vast number of people who are born with every bit as much potential for greatness as , but never have the opportunity to realize it due to crushing poverty.

They may never be able to achieve even modest financial security and live in constant dread that they'll lose one of their 2-3 jobs and be on the street, but hey, they can define success as meaning a family that loves them, so that makes absolutely everything OK! /s

Re: A lot of “idiotic” things have reasonable explanations (2011)

#263
post #222

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it's mostly just that intelligence is not terribly important for success. Tenacity, street smart, charisma, connections, passion are all more important than IQ.

Intelligence is hugely important for any kind of outlier success. It's no coincidence that Bill Gates, Jeff Bezos, and Jim Simons are undeniably brilliant. The claim that charisma, street smarts, or connections are more important than intelligence is absurd. There are so many fields in which those things just don't matter. If you're not charismatic don't pursue a career in a field that requires charisma. Simple. It's…

> If you're not charismatic don't pursue a career in a field that requires charisma. Simple.

I'm sorry, what field would that be?

I have yet to see a field where extraversion, persuasiveness, and regularly going out and having beers with the boss is less likely to get you promotion than being utterly brilliant, doing an amazing job at what you do, and maintaining a healthy work-life balance.

At least in America, charisma has a massively outsized influence on your success in anything but the very most menial of fields.

Re: A lot of “idiotic” things have reasonable explanations (2011)

#264
post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is so true i don't understand the downvotes

It's getting downvoted because it's not a good argument. Accusing the people you disagree with of coming to their conclusions through motivated reasonsing neither actually addresses the logical arguments people are making, or gives the people you're disagreeing with any intellectual credit. It also throws up some horrendous strawmen - you have to be rich to take care of your family? Want to have an open conversation…

> you have to be rich to take care of your family?

No, but your family will certainly benefit from you increasing your wealth instead of claiming you're too busy with more important things or doing what you like.

> Want to have an open conversation with someone you disagree with?

Don't worry, I don't merely disagree with these people. I find them foolish and obnoxiously self-aggrandising, hence an open discussion would lead nowhere.

Re: A lot of “idiotic” things have reasonable explanations (2011)

#265
Most of us chose the profession/vocation we practice because that is the opportunity that presented itself at the time. Very few people set out to be "rich". What they really want is to be comfortable, and able to pursue contentment. An anecdote from when I was a young person. A friend was working very hard to become a plumber. At the time I thought who would want to be a plumber, it is a gross and dirty job with a limited future. One day I asked him out of curiosity what he thought a plumber's place was. His reply surprised me. He said "a plumber's job is to protect the health of the community." Now that I'm older and reflect back, I can see that being a plumber is a solid vocation, that is needed by most communities, where a person can live anywhere they choose. But they don't get "rich". They make a comfortable living and feel they are contributing to the well being of the community. Isn't that what most of us really want from life?

Re: A lot of “idiotic” things have reasonable explanations (2011)

#266
post #64

Whenever you see someone who you believe to be an idiot succeeding, it usually means they're really good at the game and you don't even understand what the game is .

Today information is so easy to get that a lot of people think they know everything about every subject. But, like you said, reading the rules of the game does not mean you know how to play. When a company like Netflix launches a new product it is possible they thought about this with different teams for a long time. Then it's very naive to comment on the internet to say they are wrong and made a stupid mistake.

To take a recent example: when a company like TripleByte launches a new product - namely that key parts of all profiles will suddenly be public - they might have thought about this with different teams for a long time too, but commenters on the internet said they were wrong and eventually they admitted that they made a stupid mistake.

Netflix's plan paid off. TripleByte's didn't.

Apples and Oranges, I know, but how do you tell the two apart without hindsight?

Re: A lot of “idiotic” things have reasonable explanations (2011)

#267
post #88
post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He said success, not wealth. Yes, obviously someone inheriting their parents' billion dollar business is wealthy, but I wouldn't consider them successful unless they've done something on their own.

I like to think of this example [0] when I have the feeling that I got to where I am all by myself, and forget how many and how much others have worked to "build my boat", and how much luck was involved at every step. [0] https://digitalsynopsis.com/inspiration/privileged-kids-on-a...

That comic is brilliant.

Re: A lot of “idiotic” things have reasonable explanations (2011)

#268

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you just proved his point. Going to an ivy league school does not make you successful. There are many many unemployed useless Stanford, MIT, Harvard graduates in this world.

That's true, but a lot of people think the school you attend matters. For example, in the context of hiring, if you have 2 otherwise candidates but you can only choose one, most people would choose the person who went to Stanford over the guy who taught himself to code or attended a lesser respected school (in most cases). Some companies are stupid enough to only hire people from fancy schools. I think Google did som…

Yep, I've seen more than a few job postings over the years stating some version of "Must hold a degree from a Top 10 school." Who would want to work with a bunch of elitist jerks, anyway?

Re: A lot of “idiotic” things have reasonable explanations (2011)

#269
post #27

Whenever you see someone who you believe to be an idiot succeeding, it usually means they're really good at the game and you don't even understand what the game is .

Or maybe you just don't want to play the game anymore.

There is no "not playing the game". You can opt for different mini-games, but the game is eternal, beyond humans, beyond life even. Reading zen stories definitely helps you see this. Even denouncing the game is part of the game. Don't be afraid of playing it. If you don't enjoy in, you need to play it better on a higher level, by stepping back a bit.

Re: A lot of “idiotic” things have reasonable explanations (2011)

#270
post #169

I love the way people who consider themselves smart rationalize their lack of success/wealth, including here. - I don't want to be wealthy anyway - To be wealthy you have to be ruthless and I prefer to be nice - smart people are so busy with issues much more important than money - wealthy people are just lucky idiots - wealthy people are just idiots who are better at exploiting other idiots - people who are wealthy s…

If I wanted to be rich I think I'd have to put much more effort into work life. I really don't want to do that. If it comes down to working and possibly getting rich, or spending time in the pub with mates. I'll choose spending time with mates 100% of the time. I'm also very lazy, I don't think you can get rich being as lazy as I am. Hell, if it comes down to getting up before 9am to make money or sleeping in, I'll c…

> I try to work the absolute minimum I have to that allows me my lifestyle which I'm comfortable with. If that means I never get rich, I'm fine with that.

But what makes you think this kind of behavior is smart? For example, how do you plan on being able to keep it up when your cognitive abilities are no longer at their peak, or when your current job loses its present value?

Some people work hard early on precisely because they prefer to be able to do what they want without any work for most of their lives.

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