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Mastodon: Add end-to-end encryption API

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Re: Mastodon: Add end-to-end encryption API

#181

Post by vertex-four »

dependenttypes wrote: post #172
phatfish wrote: post #171

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This changes nothing, one blocklist will get a lot of users, end up as a "recommended" setting, then all those hurt that their bigoted views aren't more popular will moaning about "free speech" again. I'm happy let those who want to run a community that has similar values to mine block obnoxious content for me. Far better that than Facebook or Google being the sole arbiters.

> This changes nothing The change is that it empowers the users. > one blocklist will get a lot of users, end up as a "recommended" setting This is fine as long as the users select said list out of their own will. > then all those hurt that their bigoted views aren't more popular will moaning about "free speech" again. Have you considered the possibility that a lot of non-bigoted views are currently blocked due to tr…

> Have you considered the possibility that a lot of non-bigoted views are currently blocked due to trigger-happy admins?

Exactly who is on Gab who I want to listen to? If they're not a bigot and not ok with bigotry, why are they on there?

Re: Mastodon: Add end-to-end encryption API

#182

Post by dependenttypes »

vertex-four wrote: post #181
dependenttypes wrote: post #172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This changes nothing The change is that it empowers the users. > one blocklist will get a lot of users, end up as a "recommended" setting This is fine as long as the users select said list out of their own will. > then all those hurt that their bigoted views aren't more popular will moaning about "free speech" again. Have you considered the possibility that a lot of non-bigoted views are currently blocked due to tr…

> Have you considered the possibility that a lot of non-bigoted views are currently blocked due to trigger-happy admins? Exactly who is on Gab who I want to listen to? If they're not a bigot and not ok with bigotry, why are they on there?

I am not talking about Gab. I am talking about the other instances that were silenced in their crusade.

Re: Mastodon: Add end-to-end encryption API

#183

Post by dependenttypes »

egypturnash wrote: post #175
dependenttypes wrote: post #173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> in what shows up in the tags where us admins share block recommendations Things like #fediblock you mean? Most of the block suggestions there are - against instances because they federate (as in, they let their users view and reply to posts) with certain other instances (gab, kiwifarms, etc) even if indirectly " rel="nofollow">https://tabletop.social/@host/103308182908324413> - against instances that host anyone wh…

If you are that rare shining example of someone with a cute anime girl icon who does not regularly engage in '''ironic''' assholery straight from the bowels of 4chan and vehemently argues that their right to free speech is being impinged any time someone tells them to fuck off because they are being a jerk, then I have nothing but the best wishes for you and your friends of a similar bent. You are a lonely flame in t…

> If you are that rare

Except it is not rare at all. Did you read what I posted regarding fediblock?

A simple question, do you block fedi.absturztau.be by any chance?

Re: Mastodon: Add end-to-end encryption API

#184

Post by dependenttypes »

cjslep wrote: post #153
simias wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The definition of "free speech" many people in this thread use puzzles me greatly. If you come to my house and starts yelling things that offend me and I kick you out, I'm not infringing on your freedom of speech. Based on what principles should server owners be forced to federate with third party servers if they don't want to? How is not wanting to federate with anybody "censorship"? I've just setup a mastodon insta…

Main-instance Mastodon (run by the main dev) has made moderation choices that people disagree with. It means conversations here always brings out this same group group of people that disagreed with all these decisions and somehow believe their speech (their bytes) must physically be shipped to everyone else in some network, and must be examined by everyone on the network so that others can decide for themselves wheth…

> I've literally had conversations on the Fediverse where people expected and wanted blockchain-like replicas of their content onto everyone else's computer. And for everyone else to read it.

I honestly doubt that. Are you sure that you are not straw-manning them? In my experience they usually complain about how admins strip the ability to read their posts from the users registered in said instances.

Re: Mastodon: Add end-to-end encryption API

#185

Post by ApolloFortyNine »

simias wrote: post #146
ApolloFortyNine wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The federated Mastodon, the one people generally are talking about, is controlled, by a 'democracy' of sorts of the server owners. The technology itself is of course open, but if your content is not approved by the main Mastodon federation, then users will have to be signed into multiple Mastodon federations (if that's what they wish), one to see the main Mastodon federation, and one to see the one that got banned. B…

The definition of "free speech" many people in this thread use puzzles me greatly. If you come to my house and starts yelling things that offend me and I kick you out, I'm not infringing on your freedom of speech. Based on what principles should server owners be forced to federate with third party servers if they don't want to? How is not wanting to federate with anybody "censorship"? I've just setup a mastodon insta…

The main Mastodon federation has a list of servers you must ban on your end to join the federation. So even if you only disagree with a subsection of them, if you want your server to be in the popular federation, you have to ban the entire list.

>If you come to my house and starts yelling things that offend me and I kick you out, I'm not infringing on your freedom of speech.

It'd be more like be your neighbor being offended and therefore kicking out the person yelling things that offends him. If you don't want to be kicked out of the apartment complex, you are required to share the same views as everyone else.

Re: Mastodon: Add end-to-end encryption API

#186

Post by snvzz »

carterklein13 wrote: post #144
snvzz wrote: post #118

e2e encryption isn't something you add as an "optional feature", but rather, something that should be in the design from day one, for all communications (mandatory).

I feel like this is the goal, but as unfortunate as it is now - that's not the case, and adding E2E encryption of any sort should be celebrated to perpetuate the idea that it's not an option, but a need just like adding authentication isn't an optional feature.

>just like adding authentication isn't an optional feature.

As an added note, authentication can be and should, for most cases, be done on a session basis, when establishing the session key (which should also, by the way, be generated with care to provide forward secrecy).

The idea is that if individual messages aren't signed, there's the advantage of plausible deniability to third parties. You know who you're talking to, but you can't take a message go to a third party and claim "hey, this person has said this. See? This message is signed by his key.".

This is the level of privacy generally expected in a conversation conducted within the same room in meatspace, and most people would be uncomfortable with any less than that.

Re: Mastodon: Add end-to-end encryption API

#187

Post by cjslep »

dependenttypes wrote: post #184
cjslep wrote: post #153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Main-instance Mastodon (run by the main dev) has made moderation choices that people disagree with. It means conversations here always brings out this same group group of people that disagreed with all these decisions and somehow believe their speech (their bytes) must physically be shipped to everyone else in some network, and must be examined by everyone on the network so that others can decide for themselves wheth…

> I've literally had conversations on the Fediverse where people expected and wanted blockchain-like replicas of their content onto everyone else's computer. And for everyone else to read it. I honestly doubt that. Are you sure that you are not straw-manning them? In my experience they usually complain about how admins strip the ability to read their posts from the users registered in said instances.

I am 100% not straw manning them. I couldn't believe the conversation I was having. It's very few people that have this crazy of a hardline stance, but they're out there.

Re: Mastodon: Add end-to-end encryption API

#188

Post by egypturnash »

dependenttypes wrote: post #183
egypturnash wrote: post #175

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you are that rare shining example of someone with a cute anime girl icon who does not regularly engage in '''ironic''' assholery straight from the bowels of 4chan and vehemently argues that their right to free speech is being impinged any time someone tells them to fuck off because they are being a jerk, then I have nothing but the best wishes for you and your friends of a similar bent. You are a lonely flame in t…

> If you are that rare Except it is not rare at all. Did you read what I posted regarding fediblock? A simple question, do you block fedi.absturztau.be by any chance?

Nope! And a look through the local timeline, as well as the one public admin account, doesn’t show anything I’d block, either. I think this may be the first time I’ve looked at a Pleroma run by moe girls and not been smacked in the face by hate propaganda or admins encouraging trolling behavior.

(I also don’t go looking at any fediverse site besides my own unless I am investigating reports of bad behavior, tbh. So if there is a vast constellation of chill moe Pleromae I’m missing it. And quite possibly forming invalid stereotypes due to this bias in my sampling.)

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