Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Mastodon: Add end-to-end encryption API

github.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

171–180 of 188 posts

Re: Mastodon: Add end-to-end encryption API

#171

Post by phatfish »

dependenttypes wrote: post #135
vertex-four wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I, as a user, am still going to demand that I can join a community where of likeminded people and moderation so I don't have to deal with the overwhelming spam of the internet myself. That's the bit that a number of decentralisation projects don't get - I don't want to have messages by anyone on the whole internet forced into my view (because have you seen how much that sucks?). I want moderation if the day-to-day us…

"where it is up to the user whom they block" does not imply that you have to manually select who to block, rather it could as well mean that you are free to select block-lists (with the ability to fork them if you so wish) of your own choice rather than have the admin of your network force them on you.

This changes nothing, one blocklist will get a lot of users, end up as a "recommended" setting, then all those hurt that their bigoted views aren't more popular will moaning about "free speech" again.

I'm happy let those who want to run a community that has similar values to mine block obnoxious content for me. Far better that than Facebook or Google being the sole arbiters.

Re: Mastodon: Add end-to-end encryption API

#172

Post by dependenttypes »

phatfish wrote: post #171
dependenttypes wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"where it is up to the user whom they block" does not imply that you have to manually select who to block, rather it could as well mean that you are free to select block-lists (with the ability to fork them if you so wish) of your own choice rather than have the admin of your network force them on you.

This changes nothing, one blocklist will get a lot of users, end up as a "recommended" setting, then all those hurt that their bigoted views aren't more popular will moaning about "free speech" again. I'm happy let those who want to run a community that has similar values to mine block obnoxious content for me. Far better that than Facebook or Google being the sole arbiters.

> This changes nothing

The change is that it empowers the users.

> one blocklist will get a lot of users, end up as a "recommended" setting

This is fine as long as the users select said list out of their own will.

> then all those hurt that their bigoted views aren't more popular will moaning about "free speech" again.

Have you considered the possibility that a lot of non-bigoted views are currently blocked due to trigger-happy admins?

Re: Mastodon: Add end-to-end encryption API

#173

Post by dependenttypes »

egypturnash wrote: post #170
dependenttypes wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is being an anime fan a bad thing now? Or do you feel that putting a political label on someone just because they find a specific piece of software comfortable for them is a nice thing to do? Anyway, in the same spirit one could say that "there is a strong comorbidity between being a harasser who jumps on random threads just to insult people as well as subscribing to racist and authoritarian idelologies and using mas…

“Wanting the Internet to be 4chan forever” is a political label? Watching anime is fine by me, I’ve enjoyed the hell out of a lot of the stuff in my time. I run a Masto instance and I am just speaking from my experience in what shows up in the tags where us admins share block recommendations; there are bad actors using Masto too! I defederated from a Masto instance just this morning after seeing its admin aggressivel…

> in what shows up in the tags where us admins share block recommendations

Things like #fediblock you mean? Most of the block suggestions there are

- against instances because they federate (as in, they let their users view and reply to posts) with certain other instances (gab, kiwifarms, etc) even if indirectly " rel="nofollow">https://tabletop.social/@host/103308182908324413>

- against instances that host anyone who kyzh doesn't like

- against instances that host someone who got tagged by someone else that resides in an already blocked instance " rel="nofollow">https://toot-lab.reclaim.technology/@djsundog/10402250286634...

- against instances for no reason given at all " rel="nofollow">https://tenforward.social/@guinan/104015065073049864>

- against instances for made-up reasons

- against non-instances " rel="nofollow">https://mastodon.art/@Curator/103768019516091512>

Seeing an instance on a block tag does not mean anything other than that certain extremist elements are finding said instance to not strictly follow their party line at the first glance.

> Watching anime is fine by me, I’ve enjoyed the hell out of a lot of the stuff in my time.

What was your intention by focusing at the anime avatars then? To promote prejudice? To focus on the fact that they are introverts? To make fun of them for being unmanly and having cute avatars? There seems to be a lot of bullying directed at people just because of their avatars.

As I said before my experience is exactly the opposite. I started making all of my statuses private because I was getting stressed every time that someone from mastodon reposted or replied to my status. There seems to be an endless supply of mastodon users willing to jump on random threads just to insult, harass, and shit-talk people behind their backs.

Re: Mastodon: Add end-to-end encryption API

#174

Post by sneak »

cjslep wrote: post #83
berkes wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Everything for this is in place. No changes or features outside of AP are needed. Mastodon even has a simple key-value table that any profile can enable and fill with details such as "website: example.com", "twitter: @jack" and so on. This feature already has "verifications". Meaning that you can add proof that example.com, keybase etc are really yours. This could easily[1] be expanded to verify ownership of SMS, or…

Oops, I think I misunderstood what I was replying to. I see what you mean. I'm more interested in exploring getting the entire AP ecosystem be encrypted by default, using Chris' work. I don't think I care that much about profile deep-linking to other apps. I would rather obsolete that need.

Encrypting data meant to be public to the whole web doesn’t make much sense to me.

Re: Mastodon: Add end-to-end encryption API

#175

Post by egypturnash »

dependenttypes wrote: post #173
egypturnash wrote: post #170

Earlier quoted context omitted.

“Wanting the Internet to be 4chan forever” is a political label? Watching anime is fine by me, I’ve enjoyed the hell out of a lot of the stuff in my time. I run a Masto instance and I am just speaking from my experience in what shows up in the tags where us admins share block recommendations; there are bad actors using Masto too! I defederated from a Masto instance just this morning after seeing its admin aggressivel…

> in what shows up in the tags where us admins share block recommendations Things like #fediblock you mean? Most of the block suggestions there are - against instances because they federate (as in, they let their users view and reply to posts) with certain other instances (gab, kiwifarms, etc) even if indirectly " rel="nofollow">https://tabletop.social/@host/103308182908324413> - against instances that host anyone wh…

If you are that rare shining example of someone with a cute anime girl icon who does not regularly engage in '''ironic''' assholery straight from the bowels of 4chan and vehemently argues that their right to free speech is being impinged any time someone tells them to fuck off because they are being a jerk, then I have nothing but the best wishes for you and your friends of a similar bent. You are a lonely flame in the darkness and I wish there were far more of you, whatever your actual and/or desired gender in the fleshy world is.

I just think the fact that this association exists is fucking hilarious, it's a detail that nobody even began to get anywhere near imagining in all the sci-fi I read growing up.

Re: Mastodon: Add end-to-end encryption API

#176

Post by egypturnash »

cjslep wrote: post #153
simias wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The definition of "free speech" many people in this thread use puzzles me greatly. If you come to my house and starts yelling things that offend me and I kick you out, I'm not infringing on your freedom of speech. Based on what principles should server owners be forced to federate with third party servers if they don't want to? How is not wanting to federate with anybody "censorship"? I've just setup a mastodon insta…

Main-instance Mastodon (run by the main dev) has made moderation choices that people disagree with. It means conversations here always brings out this same group group of people that disagreed with all these decisions and somehow believe their speech (their bytes) must physically be shipped to everyone else in some network, and must be examined by everyone on the network so that others can decide for themselves wheth…

the point of Federation is to build lots of custom communities and have them politely talk to each other, or ignore the ones that violate community's expectations

Vehement agreement from a Masto admin who works to keep her instance a nice quiet chill place for people like her, with some connections to other nice quiet chill parts of the Fediverse, if you want to argue then go to Twitter or go to a "free speech" instance - and accept that you will probably be cut off from the chill places unless you make a second account and abide by the chill rules.

Re: Mastodon: Add end-to-end encryption API

#177

Post by voxelghost »

boomlinde wrote: post #66
voxelghost wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is not what free speech is about. Freedom of speech means they are free to publish their opinions, but it doesn't mean that you, or anyone, have to let them publish their opinions on your platform/paper/channel. From the mastodon wikipage: Gab, a controversial social network with a far-right user base, changed its software platform to a fork of Mastodon and became the largest Mastodon node in July 2019.[37] Gab'…

> This is not what free speech is about. Freedom of speech means they are free to publish their opinions, but it doesn't mean that you, or anyone, have to let them publish their opinions on your platform/paper/channel. In the case of Mastodon, they've deliberately avoided putting themselves in the shoes of a platform/paper/platform owner in the interest of a system where no central authority fully controls its use. T…

Yes, I think we largely see it the same way, but GP stated:

> I'm sure the Mastodon creators wouldn't like it, but they'd have to ideologically support the very idea of allowing them this, as it comes down to free speech.

And I argued that it does not come down to free speech, and that whether "Mastodon ideologically support the very idea of allowing them this" is unclear at best.

Re: Mastodon: Add end-to-end encryption API

#178

Post by _8j50 »

Grumbledour wrote: post #169
_8j50 wrote: post #165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Perhaps they do that when I used a VPN. You can police your community without spying on them or collecting sensitive information. Reddit and HN did it since the start!

This seems a bit harsh to me in response to asking for a valid email address for proof of realness and to be contacted when necessary. Reddit surely requires one. Can't remember if hn did, but don't know how they keep out spam. I also like the idea of using BTC you mentioned in another post to state good intentions, but acquiring BTC to use in the first place seems like much more hassle, registrations and sharing of…

Reddit did not mandate email as of about a year or so ago. I only use HN because no email (well I might have signed up with email anyways but I certainly never provided one). Look at all the dead posts under new on HN, they get spam and do a good job of managing it.

You can get btc with cash, if you already have it,it's a nice option.

"If it can be abused,it will be abused".

Captchas and small btc payments can't easily be abused against the user but email and phone number can. Email and phone number are also not costly to an attacker to spoof or churn out at a high rate. Captchas and small payments have accumulating prohibitive cost for an attacker.

IfI create a gmail just to sign up,it certainly is much more of a hassle. Even temporary inbox services are a hassle these days compared to a 20sec captcha.

Re: Mastodon: Add end-to-end encryption API

#179

Post by Grumbledour »

_8j50 wrote: post #178
Grumbledour wrote: post #169

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This seems a bit harsh to me in response to asking for a valid email address for proof of realness and to be contacted when necessary. Reddit surely requires one. Can't remember if hn did, but don't know how they keep out spam. I also like the idea of using BTC you mentioned in another post to state good intentions, but acquiring BTC to use in the first place seems like much more hassle, registrations and sharing of…

Reddit did not mandate email as of about a year or so ago. I only use HN because no email (well I might have signed up with email anyways but I certainly never provided one). Look at all the dead posts under new on HN, they get spam and do a good job of managing it. You can get btc with cash, if you already have it,it's a nice option. "If it can be abused,it will be abused". Captchas and small btc payments can't easi…

HN must do more to block spam than to filter it out by hand. The dead links are far from the kind and number of automated spam you see elsewhere.

That Email is a hassle but not a big one is exactly the point why sites ask for one.

And Captcha? You talked about spying before and this is exactly what captcha does these days. Its massively invasive, plus it was always annoying and never really worked well for its intended purpose.

I have to say, it seems a bit like your argument is stuck a few decades ago. While I quite like the thought experiment of how the internet could work with essentially anonymous and frictionless participation, I don't think it ever has or at least not for decades. And examples like hn and reddit are interesting, but every other blogs open comments section show that this working is rather the exception than the norm.

I consider myself privacy conscious, and from the options captcha, email and BTC, email for me strikes the right balance of ease of use, anonymity and effectiveness. More options would always be welcome though. Conecpts like Indieauth for example, look promising, but let's not kid ourselves, privacy wise, they require more of me than providing a fake address to get an email. And just like the BTC solution, it would probably keep many more people out if it were the only option.

Re: Mastodon: Add end-to-end encryption API

#180

Post by S-E-P »

robobro wrote: post #167
S-E-P wrote: post #161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree, Pleroma is better though. Just use that. Gargron has shown that they do not care much for the community or the greater fediverse at large. Pleroma also is cleaner code-wise so there's that, more active dev and lightweight relative to mastadon. not paid by Pleroma btw, i just use it daily and I love it wayyy more then Mastadon

Agree entirely, I've managed several Pleroma servers in the past. Incredibly easy to set up and configure.

And you have the guarantee that the dev will actually keep working and refining instead of all the drama mastodon finds themselves in

Pleroma does what Mastodon’t

Post reply on HN