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Tell HN: Triplebyte reverses, emails apology

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Re: Tell HN: Triplebyte reverses, emails apology

#541

Post by headgasket »

wendyshu wrote: post #498
headgasket wrote: post #161

I just deleted my account. I was unaware that I even had one. I clicked on a little puzzle that popped in my FB feed back when I was still using.(FB) This quiz was super easy, and I got pulled into doing an interview, just for fun, and a programming test in a language I had not used in 5 years. I did not do too well, but I did not care, it was for fun! Well I did not expect that bad score to be recorded and become pu…

Did you need to submit a government ID and all that?

I googled delete triplebyte account, I had to reset a password I did not know I had, then a few clicks, no dark patterns, really. It did take a few hours but I just got an email saying the account delete process is complete. Not sure how deleted it is, but hey I guess it's like everything that finds it's way on the internets... It's as deleted as enforceable.

Let's keep hacking a free internet, for fun, emancipation and progress. (all endeavours that can be for profit) Cheers

Re: Tell HN: Triplebyte reverses, emails apology

#542

Post by pgodzin »

ammon wrote: post #539
sbergot wrote: post #352

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mean, I can accept an apology when I can somehow understand the initial intention. In the thread the CEO was answering "but stackoverflow also has public accounts!" to people explaining why this was a very bad move. The guy seemed completely clueless. It was like trying to explain that hurting people is bad to someone who has just punched you in the face. And this guy justifies his move saying that he has watched a…

I was clueless. The posts I made Friday night were what I thought at the time (which was badly wrong). I was still focused on what I'd been thinking while we were developing the feature (still trying to make it "work"). What it took was a bunch of friends and mentors reaching out Saturday morning (and basically telling me I'd made a big mistake and betrayed the trust of our users). I wish I'd been able to understand…

Why did it take friends and mentors reaching out when hundreds of users had already been telling you the same on Friday?

Re: Tell HN: Triplebyte reverses, emails apology

#543

Post by ammon »

ravenstine wrote: post #150
mosselman wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This e-mail (which I also got) seems like a heartfelt apology. Even if it is heartfelt, I'd argue that if no alarm bells went off internally when they were discussing this feature, they are not the group of people to entrust with information such as this.

They're undoubtedly going to have to do more to make things right in the future for those who have been following this issue, but it's at least refreshing to read what seems like a genuine apology. If we can take away anything from this, it's that Triplebyte actually understand why people were upset over this. I've read lots of apology emails where those in charge clearly either didn't understand the problem or they…

We want to do something more concrete to guarantee user privacy going forward. A technical solution would be best. But short of that just a really strong, transparent commitment (that makes it easy to hold our feet to the fire if we screw it up again). But I could not get this together before the email today. I'm expecting to announce something in the next few weeks. I agree with people here when they say that actions are what really matter. I screwed up enough that I don't certainly don't think an apology alone makes it better.

Re: Tell HN: Triplebyte reverses, emails apology

#545

Post by ammon »

JMTQp8lwXL wrote: post #216
mosselman wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This e-mail (which I also got) seems like a heartfelt apology. Even if it is heartfelt, I'd argue that if no alarm bells went off internally when they were discussing this feature, they are not the group of people to entrust with information such as this.

I'm surprised they didn't consider beta testing the feature with a subset of users to see how it'd go first.

We did user research about the profiles, but not (crucially) about the opt-out release. That was the fuck up.

Re: Tell HN: Triplebyte reverses, emails apology

#547

Post by kerkeslager »

akerl_ wrote: post #401
coldtea wrote: post #358

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> As soon as a company does something that a chunk of people on the internet don’t agree with, there’s really no way out. And yet, tons of companies had done that, and suffered very little. Heck, any company has done something that "a chunk of people on the internet don’t agree with"... It's not about never doing anything wrong, or it being futile to apologize. It's about, you don't do THIS kind of privacy affecting…

Given that there don’t seem to be actual business repercussions from the internet mob’s displeasure, and the internet mob’s displeasure, once roused, cannot be quieted by apologies, changes in behavior, or explanations, it’s unclear to me that we’re actually “instilling” anything in companies, other than the lesson that it’s not worth bothering to pay attention to the internet mob.

> Given that there don’t seem to be actual business repercussions from the internet mob’s displeasure,

2000 account closures is an actual business repercussion.

> and the internet mob’s displeasure, once roused, cannot be quieted by apologies, changes in behavior, or explanations

It absolutely could. As a member of said "internet mob" (I deleted my account) I'll say that yes, an apology by itself is not enough, but an apology combined with a long-term change in behavior would absolutely cause me to stop criticizing them and maybe even create an account again. If, for example, they remove a bunch of dark patterns from their site and change their terms of use to give specific guarantees of data privacy, that would go a long way in my mind.

Re: Tell HN: Triplebyte reverses, emails apology

#550

Post by ammon »

mattm wrote: post #282
JMTQp8lwXL wrote: post #216

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm surprised they didn't consider beta testing the feature with a subset of users to see how it'd go first.

According to one of the CEO's replies in the other comment thread, one of the drivers to push forward was that they need to meet their sprint goal. I don't have any inside information but it seems that this could also be a case of the downsides of deadlines. They set a deadline and then all other considerations go out the window when trying to meet that.

Yeah, I think that's certainly part of it. I'll try to be more careful with sprints going forward. But I made the initial plan for the opt-out release before the deadline. So it was also just a pretty bad loss of perspective on my part.
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